Dangerous Areas of North Bronx (Webster, Floral Park: foreclosures, college, high income)

[caribny]

Originally Posted by Webster Ave Guy

I don't think anyone has a problem with a black middle class, only problem is that there are not enough! If they can make it, then most of the rest can.?

You and others imply that the North Bronx is dangerous because of the usual pathologies, painting the ENTIRE black comunity in broad brush. You make broad brushed statements without defining who or what you all are talking about.

Webster the days when " you are different" applied to "exceptional" blacks are over. There is a large black middle class now. Fewer than 30% of blacks are poor.

Caribbean blacks earn household incomes, are as likely to be college educated and own homes as the average NYer. Yet folks like you gleefully stereotype us. Whatr is interesting is welfare dependency is HIGHEST amoing white immigrants and lowest among black (and Asian) immigrants. But you will fantisize about the Jamaican or Haitian women living on welafre, when that is truer of the Russian, or Hasidic woman.

You, hilltop and others need to define which parts of the black community you are talking about. The black neighborhoods of the North East Bronx are average outer borough communities, and way more affluent, better educated and having much higher home ownership rates than other parts of The Bronx. The problems which exist there are because the system dumps poor people into black neighborhoods, for racist reasons...So introduces an element which wouldnt exist in a middle class white neighborhood to the same degree.

Not too long ago Wakefield residents had to complain about yet another homeless shelter being set up there. Only when nearby Woodlawn joined in the battle, knowing that these dysfunctionals could easily cross the bridge, was this stopped.

So when discussing why crime will be higher focus on the subgroups and then comment on that.



And there is no chicken and egg situation when it comes to out of wedlock births. When black men had jobs black women married them. As labor force participation rates dropped, for reasons outlined below, many were less interested in being tied down to an unemployed man. We see the same behavior among Hispanic women as well, especially among the native born where labor force participation rates are lower.

Blacks were excluded from the manufacturing sector until WWII, when labor shortages forced employers and trade unions to allow in blacks. Unfortunately shortly after that a number of things happened. Just when a solid blue collar group was emerging within the less educated segment of the black community.

1, Manufacturing jobs migrated to the South, before being shifted to low wage countries. Factories were often located outside of communities in the South where black populations existed.

2. Automation reduced the demand for low skilled labor. Blacks were less skilled, having been locked out of better skilled jobs, and being kept out by racist trade unions. Note that in the mid 19thC a fairly high % of the tradesmen in the USA were blacks and black freedmen played a very important role in these occupations. Heavy Euro migration eroded their position, and most were forced into low skilled and dangerous jobs.


3. Conservative people like you forced welfare to be discontinued if there was a man in the house, if there were people working in the house, if a household member had a checking a/c etc. So why then be shocekd that welfare created a culture od dependency? If a man lost his job and so the family was forced to get welfare he had to leave. If a family began to acquire some savings, to allow them to eventually be less vulnerable to short term unemployment welfare was cut off. The emphasis waqsnt on helping people caught ina trap to transition to a better life. It was about punishing those unfortunate enough to need such help. It was also about creating a whole industry based on serving the poor.


Why then be shocked when so many women refused to marry men who had nothing to offer, and whose presence in the home jeopardized their access to welfare benefits?

So I blame BOTH the conservatives and the liberals for the damage of welfare. The conservatives damned people who needed assistance a sbeing indolent. Liberals thought that people who needed assistance were unable to be helped out of their situation, so must be kept dependent. And poverticians actually grew wealthy out of this as we see from Pedro Espada and others.



So if you do not wish to be seen a racist, please stop pretending as if the middle class black person, who has the same goals as you do, is an exception. Many of us exist and just being on this forum should indicate this to you.

And also the life of the black middle class isnt always so rosy that you ought to think that entering this grouping solves the problem.

1. Black males with college degrees earn what white males who have only completed high school. .

2. Unemplyment among blacks with college degrees is 2X that of white college graduates. Surprise, surprise, the same ratio as among the population at large. There are many reasons for this, but institutional bias in the laborforce and over dependency on the public sector also play a role.

3. 10% of blacks, including many within the middle class, have lost their homes. Several cases have already proved that many lenders forced blacks and Hispanics into sub prime loans, even when their credit scores suggested otherwise.

Please no reference to pathologies, because unambitious people who plan to leive off the system do not spend time educating themselves, and incurring loans in the process. Way better to have fun in the street.

[KT2516]

Any time you got black and spanish in any area thay Will be a high crime rate . Look a prison and jail population By race . 80% of crime done By black and spanish . Sad but true - its a fact that must be looked At . Dont just call me a raceist . Show me if im wrong With facts. This is The World we live in.

[bluedog2]

Originally Posted by KT2516

iAny time you got black and spanish in any area thay Will be gh crime rate .................. Dont just call me a raceist . Show me if im wrong With facts.

Some of the lowest crime areas have both blacks an "spanish" living in them.That's a fact.

[NyWriterdude]

Originally Posted by Webster Ave Guy

Wake up and stop the excuses. People have to help themselves. The state should never get involved in peoples lives, nor provide largess which leads to long term failure. Welfare and help should be limited to four years total. Otherwise it becomes a way of live and fails to motivate people to get better and become self sufficient. Life on the dole leads to dependancy, not independence. If you can't afford kids, don't have them. Birth control is free and access is simple. Take pride in yourself and community, do unto others as you would have done unto you. If your child is not ready for school, the parent should pay the system until the child is on grade level. White privilage is BS. The Bronx is dying because of what Liberals did 50 years ago, yet they are not held accountable.

I agree with you here. Poor people were DUMPED on the BRONX, and because of welfare generational poverty was created. People were used to having things done for them by caseworkers. So they developed no life skills. Basic skills like having a driver's license are in short supply in the NYC under class, where some people even are used to having advocates from non profits filling out welfare applications for them!

[NyWriterdude]

Originally Posted by caribny

You and others imply that the North Bronx is dangerous because of the usual pathologies, painting the ENTIRE black comunity in broad brush. You make broad brushed statements without defining who or what you all are talking about.

Webster the days when " you are different" applied to "exceptional" blacks are over. There is a large black middle class now. Fewer than 30% of blacks are poor.

Caribbean blacks earn household incomes, are as likely to be college educated and own homes as the average NYer. Yet folks like you gleefully stereotype us. Whatr is interesting is welfare dependency is HIGHEST amoing white immigrants and lowest among black (and Asian) immigrants. But you will fantisize about the Jamaican or Haitian women living on welafre, when that is truer of the Russian, or Hasidic woman.

You, hilltop and others need to define which parts of the black community you are talking about. The black neighborhoods of the North East Bronx are average outer borough communities, and way more affluent, better educated and having much higher home ownership rates than other parts of The Bronx. The problems which exist there are because the system dumps poor people into black neighborhoods, for racist reasons...So introduces an element which wouldnt exist in a middle class white neighborhood to the same degree.

Agreed, but that also means that black neighborhoods need to be more vocal in not permitting certain facilities to set up shot there. And yes, big parts of the North Bronx, as well as Eastern Queens, have a lot of Black homeowners who drive cars to work.

Originally Posted by caribny

Not too long ago Wakefield residents had to complain about yet another homeless shelter being set up there. Only when nearby Woodlawn joined in the battle, knowing that these dysfunctionals could easily cross the bridge, was this stopped.

So when discussing why crime will be higher focus on the subgroups and then comment on that.



And there is no chicken and egg situation when it comes to out of wedlock births. When black men had jobs black women married them. As labor force participation rates dropped, for reasons outlined below, many were less interested in being tied down to an unemployed man. We see the same behavior among Hispanic women as well, especially among the native born where labor force participation rates are lower.

You have declining rates of marriage among the white underclass, for the same reason. Why is it people pretend that whites don't have problems, including issues with addiction?

Originally Posted by caribny

1, Manufacturing jobs migrated to the South, before being shifted to low wage countries. Factories were often located outside of communities in the South where black populations existed.

Utter Hogwash. Having lived in the South, I know plenty of Black Southerners who work in factories. They DRIVE to WORK.

Originally Posted by caribny

3. Conservative people like you forced welfare to be discontinued if there was a man in the house, if there were people working in the house, if a household member had a checking a/c etc. So why then be shocekd that welfare created a culture od dependency? If a man lost his job and so the family was forced to get welfare he had to leave. If a family began to acquire some savings, to allow them to eventually be less vulnerable to short term unemployment welfare was cut off. The emphasis waqsnt on helping people caught ina trap to transition to a better life. It was about punishing those unfortunate enough to need such help. It was also about creating a whole industry based on serving the poor.

Since when it is the constitutional right of a family to be provided for long term just to live in NYC. Yes, there was a whole service industry created on serving the poor. But in order for it to work, it needed compliance from the poor. Historically, people have always moved to NYC with little money. Likewise, you don't need an exist visa to leave. But of course, this type of person finds it easy to just get everything they can from the government for free.

Let's be honest about another thing which traps some people in poverty. Crime. A lot of people get busted for doing truly stupid things, and once you have a record of conviction that ruins your life. You can be denied housing, employment, etc. And all you have left is these programs. And this actually occurs to people of all races.

Originally Posted by caribny

So I blame BOTH the conservatives and the liberals for the damage of welfare. The conservatives damned people who needed assistance a sbeing indolent. Liberals thought that people who needed assistance were unable to be helped out of their situation, so must be kept dependent. And poverticians actually grew wealthy out of this as we see from Pedro Espada and others.

Sort of. Obviously the discrimination early on of things like the trade unions quite clearly did damage. No doubt about it. At the same time, I don't think that conservatives were wrong to attach strings to welfare or insist the person really be poor. If it were too easy to get welfare, why should anyone do any low end job? The society just wouldn't function.

Originally Posted by caribny

So if you do not wish to be seen a racist, please stop pretending as if the middle class black person, who has the same goals as you do, is an exception. Many of us exist and just being on this forum should indicate this to you.

I've said it repeatedly, there are plenty of Black cops, civil service workers, post office workers, MTA employees, teachers, professors, hospital workers, etc. Why people act like all these people are invisible is beyond me.

Originally Posted by caribny

And also the life of the black middle class isnt always so rosy that you ought to think that entering this grouping solves the problem.

1. Black males with college degrees earn what white males who have only completed high school. .

2. Unemplyment among blacks with college degrees is 2X that of white college graduates. Surprise, surprise, the same ratio as among the population at large. There are many reasons for this, but institutional bias in the laborforce and over dependency on the public sector also play a role.

3. 10% of blacks, including many within the middle class, have lost their homes. Several cases have already proved that many lenders forced blacks and Hispanics into sub prime loans, even when their credit scores suggested otherwise.

Please no reference to pathologies, because unambitious people who plan to leive off the system do not spend time educating themselves, and incurring loans in the process. Way better to have fun in the street.

The problem with the following comments is sort of what a psychologist I know said. Discussing rascism too much is as harmful as discussing it too little. Yes, Black people got a raw deal.

But if you try to point out things like losing your home as something uniquely a Black thing (when it happens to White, Hispanics, Asians, etc) you lose people. Life is ROUGH for everyone. But if you try to claim Blacks have all these unique problems, others will dismiss it as whining at best, and the sheer stupidity of Blacks at its worse.

One factor, if unemployment among Black males with degree is hiring than non Black males, is the CLOSED MINDEDNESS of certain Blacks in URBAN areas. Black people this, Black people that. The problem is people with that mentality ISOLATE themselves from everyone else.

People are often hired by people they know. They often learn of work opportunities or career paths from people they know. If you're always yapping about Black people this, persecution of Black people that,you're going to put off non Blacks and likely have no non Black friends. At that point you've substantially reduced your work opportunities right there and you have a huge part to play in this BLAME. Stop seeing everything in Black and learn to see people as HUMAN BEINGS and INDIVIDUALS. Then things will get better for you.

Oh, and if Webster Avenue guy has racist feelings towards Blacks, so the hell what? Why would I give a damn about what another person things? To me Blacks who worry too much what others may think of them have an inferiority complex.

For starters, its someone else's brain. They can think whatever they please. If its not true, and you know its not true, why do you care?

[KT2516]

So can anyone explain to me why black and spanish people commit so much crime in the Bronx or any place in USA. It is a fact that said groups have The highest crime, arrest and Conviction rate, compared to every other race. Dont take my word for it . Look it up for your self. All you need to do is get the US. cences pick the area your interested in, it will give you the population broken down By race. Second get the number of people Arrested in said area it is all so broken down By race, (and public record). Divide the 2 numbers into each other this is the percentage of that race arrested or convicted what ever one your looking up. This is fact!!! Its plain to see The percentage it just Much Much higher than any other race.

[PrestigiousReputability]

Originally Posted by KT2516

Any time you got black and spanish in any area thay Will be a high crime rate . Look a prison and jail population By race . 80% of crime done By black and spanish . Sad but true - its a fact that must be looked At . Dont just call me a raceist . Show me if im wrong With facts . This is The World we live in.

Springdale, MD: Crime is 76% lower than MD state avg (90% black)
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//www.city-data.com/city/Springdale-Maryland.html

Hillcrest, NY: Crime is 44% lower than NY state avg (59% black)
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//www.city-data.com/city/Hillcrest-New-York.html

Ladera Heights, CA: Crime is 67% lower than CA state average (79% black)
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//www.city-data.com/city/Ladera...alifornia.html

Woodmore, MD: Crime is 67% lower than MD state avg (82% black)
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//www.city-data.com/city/Woodmore-Maryland.html

South Floral Park, NY: Crime is 75% lower than NY state avg (55% black)
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//www.city-data.com/city/South-...-New-York.html

Brandywine, MD: Crime is 78% lower than MD state avg (70% black)
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//www.city-data.com/city/Brandywine-Maryland.html

View Park-Windsor Hills, CA: Crime is 40% lower than CA state avg (83% black)
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//www.city-data.com/city/View-P...alifornia.html

Rosaryville, MD: Crime is 44% lower than MD state avg (81% black)
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//www.city-data.com/city/Rosaryville-Maryland.html

Olympia Fields, IL: Crime is 77% lower than IL state average (69% black)
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//www.city-data.com/city/Olympi...-Illinois.html

Mitchellville, MD: Crime is 57% lower than MD state avg (85% black)
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//www.city-data.com/city/Mitche...-Maryland.html

I can go on and on and on..

Show me if im wrong With facts

Your welcome

Gosh, some of you guys really lost touch with reality. Gotta lay off the stormfront rhetoric for a bit and crawl up from under them basements at least every once in a while, lol

[KT2516]

You proved my point. Any Place that has a high population of black and or spanish. Will have a high crime rate. Are you trying to say this is not fact. Look At towns like Manalapan Nj its 90% pluss white. All most no crime. And the crime that happens is not from people that live there. It's blacks and Spanish from city, or towns like freehold Borough Nj that's most balk and Spanish. You can't put you head in the ground and say its not true.

[PrestigiousReputability]

Originally Posted by KT2516

You proved my point. Any Place that has a high population of black and or spanish. Will have a high crime rate. Are you trying to say this is not fact. Look At towns like Manalapan Nj its 90% pluss white. All most no crime. And the crime that happens is not from people that live there. It's blacks and Spanish from city, or towns like freehold Borough Nj that's most balk and Spanish. You can't put you head in the ground and say its not true.

How did I prove your point? Did you even read any of the post?

I posted many locations with VERY HIGH black populations that have VERY LOW crime rates that are far below their state's averages (and I can post a lot more).

I do agree that the majority of black/hispanic areas have higher crime rates but to say "any place that has a high population of black and or spanish will have a high crime rate" is just straight up inaccurate and false information.

[KT2516]

All so I'm talking about the people of the town. Not the town it's self. Look at the % of black and Spanish doing crime, getting arrested, vs. there population as a whole. It's higher than Whits, Jews, Chinese , Japanese, middle eastern , ect . - the Percent of the amount with criminal records ( doing crime) vs. there population. It's higher than any group. Why is this? No one cam tell me, I'm a math guy , math never lied. It's the only universal language