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I do know locals who considered much of what is officially East Williamsburg as part of Bushwick. This isn't just a transplant thing and there are locals who feel/thought calling the areas East Williamsburg (though technically correct) as a marketing push by real estate agents.
On craigslist brokers sometimes refer to parts of Bedstuy as South Williamsburg!
Basically real estate agents were using the Williamsburg name to rent out places in Bedstuy or Bushwick to newcomers who might not be so willing to go for Bedstuy or Bushwick. Though today, those neighborhoods have better reputations.
As for the borderlines... It's weird because it isn't concrete by any means... I always mentioned this that the neighborhood would be so much easier to define if the borderlines were strictly Wyckoff to Broadway from Flushing ave to Cooper. anything to the west of Flushing ave would be east Williamsburg, anything to the north of Wyckoff would be ridgewood anything to the south of Broadway would be Bed-stuy and anything to the East of Cooper would be East NY/Brownsville...
Unfortunately, that is not the case... There is even a point somewhere around irving/knickerbocker that flushing ave cuts into East Williamsburg and is denoted by the 11206 zip code or 11211... Additionally, from Flushing ave to Menahan St. Cypress ave is the cutoff between Ridgewood and Bushwick and not Wyckoff... Once you pass Menahan St. for some odd reason, the borderline becomes St. Nicholas and after grove or linden, the border becomes Wyckoff... Similar situation goes for Flushing ave... Flushing ave is part of Bushwick from Cypress to Irving. When it veers to the left once it crosses irving heading into noll st and Melrose st it becomes a part of East Williamsburg and from there the border on Knickerbocker then becomes Melrose and on Wilson it becomes Jefferson and so forth and so on until Broadway. Apparently, google follows the community district 4 lines almost perfectly and when you see the zipcodes change from 11237 to 11206 you are no longer in Bushwick...
The explanation for the weird boundaries with Ridgewood is because when the map for borough boundaries were drawn they were originally plotted ended up as a diagonal to the street grid layout. Rather than cut through the blocks at that angle but also not just flatout giving over the area to one borough another, the boundary zigzags along the street grid in as close to the original diagonal boundary as possible without cutting directly through a block. Sounds stupid but meh.
You're on the right path... It took you awhile but hard work and determination finding a proper Bed-stuy area to mention that won't make you sound like an imbecile paid off... I'm waiting on Bushwick now... Please enlighten me as to the areas you saw that were "filled" with whites in Bushwick...
Filled to what degree? There's no area that's majority white but there are blocks where something like a quarter to almost half the people living there are white when you're staying within close reach of Flushing (and on the Bushwick side, of course).
I do know locals who considered much of what is officially East Williamsburg as part of Bushwick. This isn't just a transplant thing and there are locals who feel/thought calling the areas East Williamsburg (though technically correct) as a marketing push by real estate agents.
This is true... Years ago, before the idea of hipsters in Bushwick/East Williamsburg was even a thought, many locals would call the area by Myrtle Broadway which included the Bushwick houses as Bushwick territory... And because the culture of the area wasn't any different from Bushwick proper, nobody questioned the borderlines... However, when East Williamsburg began to change dramatically, there was a need to define these boundaries so that clever real estate agents wouldn't label the area as something it wasn't... Originally, the push was to label Bushwick areas as East Williamsburg to attract attention... However, when Bushwick took on this persona of "gritty hipster paradise" (an oxymoron if I ever saw one)... Bushwick become the more popular term to use... Now about 75% of what you see labeled as Bushwick along the East Williamsburg border on these sites is actually East Williamsburg...
Filled to what degree? There's no area that's majority white but there are blocks where something like a quarter to almost half the people living there are white when you're staying within close reach of Flushing (and on the Bushwick side, of course).
I'll make it easy for you... I know blocks on the Jefferson stop between Wyckoff and St. Nich or Wyckoff and Irving that are 75-100% white... This is the case because those areas were originally meant to be industrial areas and a makeshift house or two was put up quickly and poorly to house the new crowd... And the new census tracts then show that the areas along Wyckoff between Jefferson to starr are changing so much where they've gone from 100% Spanish to 75% white but the reality is that those tracts have maybe 25-30 people tops seeing as how that area is still heavily industrial... But try to that explain that to people who are convinced of something that isn't happening... It really is like talking to a brick wall
I'll make it easy for you... I know blocks on the Jefferson stop between Wyckoff and St. Nich or Wyckoff and Irving that are 75-100% white... This is the case because those areas were originally meant to be industrial areas and a makeshift house or two was put up quickly and poorly to house the new crowd... And the new census tracts then show that the areas along Wyckoff between Jefferson to starr are changing so much where they've gone from 100% Spanish to 75% white but the reality is that those tracts have maybe 25-30 people tops seeing as how that area is still heavily industrial... But try to that explain that to people who are convinced of something that isn't happening... It really is like talking to a brick wall
It's not a question of making it easy or hard for me. I was asking you for a subjective definition (your own personal definition) of what it means to be filled with whites or what would be considered significant. I think it makes a lot more sense if everyone's arguing with an idea of what different terms mean to each other. If you think that having some chunks of the western/northwestern parts of Bushwick being a quarter white or so but the rest of Bushwick at something like 90% black or hispanic means that not much has changed, then sure. However, to someone else, that western/northwestern portion of Bushwick having changed so much is enough for them to say Bushwick has gone through significant change. Just define what significant change qualifies as, that's all.
Also, did you take a look at the census map? It has broader swathes since it goes by census tracts and not block by block, but it gives you a general idea of what the change has been from 2000 to 2010. It's not just tracts with twenty people or so as most of the tracts for Bushwick are taking in areas that are several thousands of people each. The data is three years old though and I think there can be a safe assumption that the trends that went from 2000 to 2010 in general continued up from 2010 to the present day.
This is true... Years ago, before the idea of hipsters in Bushwick/East Williamsburg was even a thought, many locals would call the area by Myrtle Broadway which included the Bushwick houses as Bushwick territory... And because the culture of the area wasn't any different from Bushwick proper, nobody questioned the borderlines... However, when East Williamsburg began to change dramatically, there was a need to define these boundaries so that clever real estate agents wouldn't label the area as something it wasn't... Originally, the push was to label Bushwick areas as East Williamsburg to attract attention... However, when Bushwick took on this persona of "gritty hipster paradise" (an oxymoron if I ever saw one)... Bushwick become the more popular term to use... Now about 75% of what you see labeled as Bushwick along the East Williamsburg border on these sites is actually East Williamsburg...
Yep, it's kind of ridiculous though the East Williamsburg masquerading as parts of Bushwick I think is less common than calling Bushwick part of East Williamsburg though that's a generalization as I don't really comb real estate listings that often. Really to me though, since I basically only hung out with natives when I was living in Williamsburg, East Williamsburg still sounds unnatural to me and I still think of it as Bushwick though I understand the different technical boundaries. I'm not confused about the delineation we're making here--just that what I associate with Bushwick on a gut level was often East Williamsburg.
It's not a question of making it easy or hard for me. I was asking you for a subjective definition (your own personal definition) of what it means to be filled with whites or what would be considered significant. I think it makes a lot more sense if everyone's arguing with an idea of what different terms mean to each other. If you think that having some chunks of the western/northwestern parts of Bushwick being a quarter white or so but the rest of Bushwick at something like 90% black or hispanic means that not much has changed, then sure. However, to someone else, that western/northwestern portion of Bushwick having changed so much is enough for them to say Bushwick has gone through significant change. Just define what significant change qualifies as, that's all.
Also, did you take a look at the census map? It has broader swathes since it goes by census tracts and not block by block, but it gives you a general idea of what the change has been from 2000 to 2010. It's not just tracts with twenty people or so as most of the tracts for Bushwick are taking in areas that are several thousands of people each. The data is three years old though and I think there can be a safe assumption that the trends that went from 2000 to 2010 in general continued up from 2010 to the present day.
Did not mean to sound derogatory... This topic is frustrating at times because you have so many people that spread misinformation with so much confidence... I don't lump you into that category... And yes you would be correct in assuming that the trends have continued especially along the east Williamsburg border but my point of my last post was that if you take a look at the census tracts along that borderline in comparison with the census tracts along the heart of bushwick towards Madison, cornelia, gates, hancock st, grove st, etc. from irving to evergreen... the tracts along the Jefferson l train for the most part are much smaller... the ones that have a higher number also have a smaller percentage of whites... Obviously the census tracts weren't done intentionally for this purpose, but it is a little deceiving for those who simply look at the tracts without looking at the population as a measure of change...
Yep, it's kind of ridiculous though the East Williamsburg masquerading as parts of Bushwick I think is less common than calling Bushwick part of East Williamsburg though that's a generalization as I don't really comb real estate listings that often. Really to me though, since I basically only hung out with natives when I was living in Williamsburg, East Williamsburg still sounds unnatural to me and I still think of it as Bushwick though I understand the different technical boundaries. I'm not confused about the delineation we're making here--just that what I associate with Bushwick on a gut level was often East Williamsburg.
If it wasn't for the dramatic change in culture I'd be right there with you... For example it's still hard for me to lump Myrtle Broadway and Bushwick houses as part of East Williamsburg even though technically it is... I was the same way... I hung out with the natives in East Will. and other than a few PR heads that would call it East Willy B most of the locals there referred to that part of Brooklyn as Bushwick... Even to this day, that part of BK hasn't changed that much demographics wise but it is a hell of a lot safer than it used to be... That whole strip along myrtle really once you passed knickerbocker was not a smart thing to do... But things change... Some for the better, some for the worst
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