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Many of the people I see do not qualify for "hand-outs," and/or do get them in addition.
Nonetheless, it is not at all a decent or humane way to house people. The saddest thing, regarding immigrants, is that it is often better than they had.
Boo freaking hoo. I lived in suburban NJ and worked near Union Square, with a 3.5 hour commute every day. People need to get over themselves and stop thinking that they are entitled to anything.
In fact, rental prices would actually go down as the subsidies are ended. Section 8, HASA, etc., really became welfare for landlords. Can't get tenants who pay enough consistently to pay off your mortgage? Oh, fill your building with welfare clients, use that to pay down the mortgage, and flip it when market conditions improve.
Also, if businesses aren't paying workers enough money, subsidized housing is basically supporting a failed business model anyway. I agree with you that people aren't entitled to anything. Oh, they don't have to get over it, though, the federal government is cutting out funding for this all the same. Nationally, taxpayers have spoken and they are no longer willing to cover this.
Many of the people I see do not qualify for "hand-outs," and/or do get them in addition.
Nonetheless, it is not at all a decent or humane way to house people. The saddest thing, regarding immigrants, is that it is often better than they had.
How are these people employed? If they are not making money on the books and can't show bank statements, tax returns,and paycheck stubs, then no landlord is going to rent out to them anyway. Its why they have to move into a basement, or a house full of people or whatever. Even when they do get enough cash to technically rent an apartment, no legitimate landlord is going to take that.
In fact, rental prices would actually go down as the subsidies are ended. Section 8, HASA, etc., really became welfare for landlords. Can't get tenants who pay enough consistently to pay off your mortgage? Oh, fill your building with welfare clients, use that to pay down the mortgage, and flip it when market conditions improve.
Also, if businesses aren't paying workers enough money, subsidized housing is basically supporting a failed business model anyway. I agree with you that people aren't entitled to anything. Oh, they don't have to get over it, though, the federal government is cutting out funding for this all the same. Nationally, taxpayers have spoken and they are no longer willing to cover this.
Welfare doesn't pay enough rent for people. Welfare recipients that have apts have what is called a third party paying their rent balances, and have to prove that they have the 3rd party in order to get what little rental assistance they can get. How many do you think can come up with a 3rd party? Most live in the shelters. There are also welfare centers in each shelter so that shelter residents don't have to go to an outside center.
NYCHA hasn't accepted welfare recipients in over a decade. If any are living there they are with a relative or friend that is the primary tenant.
What the taxpayer thinks is unimportant, because as we all know Washington says one thing and does another. For the good of their respective states lawmakers will vote to keep NYC going and to be able to support it's poor so that other states don't have to take care of their own.
Lawmakers always find a way to keep tables waited, deli's and other takeouts going, and grapes picked for wine.
10 people living in an illegal 3 bdrm basement apartment is called making it work?
Failing is not working (if you're able-bodied), and being on welfare permanently. Working for a wage, with money to send home, and living in what is basically a dorm, is making it work.
You were likely born in the US, and so have an entitled perspective. NYC is nearly 60% immigrant & their kids in case you forgot. Being born here and living on welfare or subsidies (assuming you're not sick or disabled) - thats a fail.
where do you look when you are looking for a
new place to stay that you can afford? do you
look online or walk around neighborhoods or
both in or out of that order?
What the taxpayer thinks is unimportant, because as we all know Washington says one thing and does another. For the good of their respective states lawmakers will vote to keep NYC going and to be able to support it's poor so that other states don't have to take care of their own.
Lawmakers always find a way to keep tables waited, deli's and other takeouts going, and grapes picked for wine.
There's absolutely no indication that the city establishment currently wants to keep this underclass population here. New York City has gone out of its way to promote itself as the coolest place. Its gone out of its way to attract educated professionals, and yes, in neighborhoods like the Lower East Side, Chelsea, Bedstuy, Williamsburg, Harlem they have replaced welfare clients.
New York City itself has cut back funding to welfare programs. Project Momentum was an Aids shelter/soup kitchen type program, which used to have free meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner at churches all over the 5 boroughs. The city ENDED most funding to this program, and most of their soup kitchens CLOSED.
After governor Cuomo ending funding to the City Advantage Welfare program, Bloomberg himself SHUT the program DOWN.
You're making up facts as you go instead of paying attention to current realities. But hiding behind fantasies does not change reality, in fact, it only makes dealing with the reality much more difficult.
As the federal government ends its subsidy of New York welfare programs, the city and state are happy that they now have the excuse to end these programs.
Both Mayor Giuliani and Mayor Bloomberg wanted to end HASA, the Aids welfare program. The only reason they didn't do this? Because poverty pimps took them to court and SUED, and the judges ruled in favor of the clients. So what Congress and state legislature are doing is slowing cutting back funding to these programs. Each time there's a funding cut ,the program has to reduce services, kick people off, etc. In the end, when the program has so little money left when it becomes more or less defunct, there's nothing the courts can do about that because constitutionally, Congress and the legislatures, not the judges, set the budgets.
So it really is all over. Its funny, because the denial about the essential execution of the welfare complex in NYC forum is so great just two months ago people were arguing it was impossible for there to be any budget cuts for NYCHA (NYCHA has seen its funding but by 2 billion since 2001) Its why there's a massive backlog of repairs, and with them laying off 500 people, plus not hiring summer crews, living in NYCHA is going to be pretty uncomfortable as rents go up even FURTHER.
There's absolutely no indication that the city establishment currently wants to keep this underclass population here. New York City has gone out of its way to promote itself as the coolest place. Its gone out of its way to attract educated professionals, and yes, in neighborhoods like the Lower East Side, Chelsea, Bedstuy, Williamsburg, Harlem they have replaced welfare clients.
You're making up facts as you go instead of paying attention to current realities. But hiding behind fantasies does not change reality, in fact, it only makes dealing with the reality much more difficult.
I never post unless I'm certain about what I am posting about. I don't post for the sake of posting.
You don't understand that all projects are run from the same office, and this office is not renting to welfare recipients. I don't work for the city or live in NYCHA so I have no reason to make up anything.
I do have very good sources that have good positions in City, State and Federal Government and I don't need to rely on the media.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
As the federal government ends its subsidy of New York welfare programs, the city and state are happy that they now have the excuse to end these programs.
Both Mayor Giuliani and Mayor Bloomberg wanted to end HASA, the Aids welfare program. The only reason they didn't do this? Because poverty pimps took them to court and SUED, and the judges ruled in favor of the clients. So what Congress and state legislature are doing is slowing cutting back funding to these programs. Each time there's a funding cut ,the program has to reduce services, kick people off, etc. In the end, when the program has so little money left when it becomes more or less defunct, there's nothing the courts can do about that because constitutionally, Congress and the legislatures, not the judges, set the budgets.
The people in these welfare programs are not living in the projects for the most part. You mention HASA very often. You are correct in previous post that people are now able to live out their life spans in pretty good health due to the medications available now. However to qualify for help to get these medications you have to stay around the 50K mark in income. These people would be eligible to apply for NYCHA.
You have a low crime rate in NYC partially because of many programs. The south and midwest have very high crime rates in many areas because there are no programs. Before the city allows the crime rate to go up, they'll replace one program with something else. Because if they allow things to spiral out of control people will run out of the city. People are here happily walking around many neighborhoods that they wouldn't have thought of moving to years ago, living near NYCHA and other subsidized housing, because it is safer than it used to be.
The areas that don't have PJ's and subsidized housing people are not flocking to because you are farther out and you need a very decent income to live there even if the areas are mostly minority. They are areas with homes, condos and coops, and are kind of suburban. People may be safer there if programs are not replaced, the same way they were safer in those places some years ago. Which would mean that you would lose people living in the core. That is not going to happen, billions have been invested in NYC's core.
I do agree that the city does not want to keep it's underclass in this city. But no other place wants to take them either. You also mentioned maybe in another thread that a person doesn't need much education to actually perform a job. This is no longer true, that is why many jobs want particular skills or college degrees. Even if a person can do something but they don't have some sort of certification that they can perform the job they will be locked out. No employer is going to trust a NYC High School Diploma as that certification, unless maybe it is from a Specialized HS.
I never post unless I'm certain about what I am posting about. I don't post for the sake of posting.
You don't understand that all projects are run from the same office, and this office is not renting to welfare recipients. I don't work for the city or live in NYCHA so I have no reason to make up anything.
I do have very good sources that have good positions in City, State and Federal Government and I don't need to rely on the media.
The people in these welfare programs are not living in the projects for the most part. You mention HASA very often. You are correct in previous post that people are now able to live out their life spans in pretty good health due to the medications available now. However to qualify for help to get these medications you have to stay around the 50K mark in income. These people would be eligible to apply for NYCHA.
You have a low crime rate in NYC partially because of many programs. The south and midwest have very high crime rates in many areas because there are no programs. Before the city allows the crime rate to go up, they'll replace one program with something else. Because if they allow things to spiral out of control people will run out of the city. People are here happily walking around many neighborhoods that they wouldn't have thought of moving to years ago, living near NYCHA and other subsidized housing, because it is safer than it used to be.
The areas that don't have PJ's and subsidized housing people are not flocking to because you are farther out and you need a very decent income to live there even if the areas are mostly minority. They are areas with homes, condos and coops, and are kind of suburban. People may be safer there if programs are not replaced, the same way they were safer in those places some years ago. Which would mean that you would lose people living in the core. That is not going to happen, billions have been invested in NYC's core.
I do agree that the city does not want to keep it's underclass in this city. But no other place wants to take them either. You also mentioned maybe in another thread that a person doesn't need much education to actually perform a job. This is no longer true, that is why many jobs want particular skills or college degrees. Even if a person can do something but they don't have some sort of certification that they can perform the job they will be locked out. No employer is going to trust a NYC High School Diploma as that certification, unless maybe it is from a Specialized HS.
There are basic jobs such as retail, real estate (I know brokers with just high school degrees), construction, restaurant/bar jobs that one can get with high school degrees. If the person is interested in advancement, then they can talk about certification or higher degrees.
As for you special sources, it amazes me how people try to claim some sort of special knowledge of the welfare system. I personally know people who are laid off by budget cuts. As for "government" sources, big deal, since when do government officials always tell the truth. I also personally know people who have been cut off programs. Its finished, dude, big time.
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