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My point is you can get far more here for the money than in Manhattan. In fact that's why many families priced out from Manhattan move here because they can get more space because it's more suburban here and thus more affordable. I'm rather baffled as to why the OP would want to squeeze into a one bedroom when it sounds like he can afford a few extra bucks for a two bedroom? Doesn't make any sense to me. If it was Manhattan then I could understand but here you can get a two bedroom that certainly wouldn't break the bank. If he and his wife are both working and he's working at the College of Saint Vincent they obviously aren't doing too terrible to the point to where a few extra hundred dollars a month is going to make them house poor.
A friend of mine is an architect and he rents a co-op along Kappock Street for $1,100 a month. A two bedroom wouldn't be that much more in the range of $1,600 - 2,200 depending on location.
That's a fair question.
Quite simply, we are minimalists. We don't like to have a lot of stuff, nor do we value having a large home. We would prefer to take that extra $400-600/month and put it in our children's college funds or take a nice trip somewhere. This is not to say that we disapprove of those who like big places, it's just not our thing.
I know the concept is foreign to many people, particularly Americans, but I don't see it as some kind of moral failing to prefer a small apartment to live in with my family.
My point is you can get far more here for the money than in Manhattan. In fact that's why many families priced out from Manhattan move here because they can get more space because it's more suburban here and thus more affordable. I'm rather baffled as to why the OP would want to squeeze into a one bedroom when it sounds like he can afford a few extra bucks for a two bedroom? Doesn't make any sense to me.
Sounds perfectly logical to me.He said they would only be doing it for a few years and then probably buy something bigger.This is exactly what others I know who could afford much more are doing as well.Living on a shoestring while trying to save up to buy......maybe,hopefully buying all cash.
We are all different and have different ideas about what we want in life and how we want to accomplish it.
Quite simply, we are minimalists. We don't like to have a lot of stuff, nor do we value having a large home. We would prefer to take that extra $400-600/month and put it in our children's college funds or take a nice trip somewhere. This is not to say that we disapprove of those who like big places, it's just not our thing.
I know the concept is foreign to many people, particularly Americans, but I don't see it as some kind of moral failing to prefer a small apartment to live in with my family.
Again, your input is appreciated.
I certainly understand. I'm a minimalist myself and am familiar with Europe having lived and visited there off and on so I'm aware of the smaller apartments as I have lived in several apartments during my stays there. That said a one bedroom for 4 seems rather cramped. A two bedroom however or a junior I can understand. I would think you and your wife would like some sort of privacy one in a while... If you've ever visited Belgium and lived in apartments there, then surely you will feel as if you're living in a mansion in Riverdale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2
Sounds perfectly logical to me.He said they would only be doing it for a few years and then probably buy something bigger.This is exactly what others I know who could afford much more are doing as well.Living on a shoestring while trying to save up to buy......maybe,hopefully buying all cash.
We are all different and have different ideas about what we want in life and how we want to accomplish it.
I live below my means as well but at the same time I feel as if the OP could live quite comfortably in Riverdale and still save money at the same time. Now that I think of it, I have a few friends myself who live in Manhattan in small quarters, but certainly not a studio.
Quite simply, we are minimalists. We don't like to have a lot of stuff, nor do we value having a large home. We would prefer to take that extra $400-600/month and put it in our children's college funds or take a nice trip somewhere. This is not to say that we disapprove of those who like big places, it's just not our thing.
I know the concept is foreign to many people, particularly Americans, but I don't see it as some kind of moral failing to prefer a small apartment to live in with my family.
Again, your input is appreciated.
Listen,space is so expensive in NYC that there are hundreds of thousands of affluent people (and couples) living in tiny rooms without closets or windows,sharing baths and kitchens with 4 to 6 other people.I used to live in Williamsburg and you should see what goes on there between the hipsters and the Hasids.Both of those groups really know how to cram them in !
You may find that individual landlords with small buildings or multi-family homes would be a better budget option for a 2BR, and may be more accommodating with your family because they do not have a set of rules governed by a co-op board, or management company. The only caveat is that such apartments may not have the same services as a limited-service building, and certainly not the same as a full-service building with doorman, laundry, etc. There are multi-family houses throughout Riverdale, and some in North Riverdale close to the College of Mount Saint Vincent. So, you may have a trade-off in conveniences, such as laundry facilities, exercise rooms, swimming pools, doormen, porters, etc., but your rent is not covering the common charges for such services.
I agree that you should not have a problem with a JR4 apartment, as it would have enough sleeping space, since you would use the dining area as another bedroom. And, some have living rooms that are sufficiently large to accommodate a dining table near the kitchen, so you would only lose a dedicated space, which would not be a loss from your perspective, given the size of the units in which you have previously lived.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
OP, I am right there with you on this. My wife is Japanese and we've always lived in apartments that are small by American standards, and have never had a problem. I'd be very disappointed if a landlord or co-op board denied us because we didn't require as much space as they felt we should be requiring.
You'd think that in NYC of all places -- where there's always something to do and very little reason to stay cooped up in your apartment all the time -- co-op boards would understand that living space isn't that important.
In the building we're in now, we have 44 square meters, which is about 450 square feet, for the two of us. We could easily raise a kid here. In fact, we'll probably go back to Tokyo where I purchased my 400-SF "starter" apartment, and many couples there are raising one child, with one neighbor even raising two teenagers!
One very big thing that can be done to save space is to sleep on an Asian-style roll-out futon rather than on a bed. Beds are big space-hogs: most people don't store things underneath them, plus they typically leave two to three feet of space around at least two sides of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosvenor
A friend of mine is an architect and he rents a co-op along Kappock Street for $1,100 a month. A two bedroom wouldn't be that much more in the range of $1,600 - 2,200 depending on location.
This sounds like I'm picking on you, Grosvenor -- rest assured that I'm not -- but I have to mention that "wouldn't be that much more" is only true if the OP makes a very high income. The traditional maximum monthly rent is 40x your annual income. So for someone making $50,000 or so, $1100 is just right whereas $1600 will make a landlord refuse you.
OP, can you use your wife's home culture as justification for your choice in living arrangements? When my wife and I move, we want to make our choice based on location rather than spaciousness, and would willingly sacrifice space for a shorter commute or a better neighborhood. Shouldn't this be the resident's decision and not the board's?
Shouldn't this be the resident's decision and not the board's?
The issue with this is its not so common her in the United States. What is common is space, quiet, and relaxing time at home. I'm 1 person and live in a 1 bedroom, I would not be happy if 4 people in a 1 bedroom lived besides me, above me, below me, and next to me. That would take away me being able to enjoy my apartment. The plus of bigger apartments is you then don't share all walls with neighbors, some you share with you. So if neighbors are being loud and babies and kids are crying you can go to the room the doesn't share walls with them. The fact that you want and can live in a small space is no issue. If thats what makes you happy then go for it. As someone said you should look into house apartments where you don't have many neighbors. My point was to make you understand why you may not get a small apartment with several people.
The issue with this is its not so common her in the United States. What is common is space, quiet, and relaxing time at home. I'm 1 person and live in a 1 bedroom, I would not be happy if 4 people in a 1 bedroom lived besides me, above me, below me, and next to me. That would take away me being able to enjoy my apartment. The plus of bigger apartments is you then don't share all walls with neighbors, some you share with you. So if neighbors are being loud and babies and kids are crying you can go to the room the doesn't share walls with them. The fact that you want and can live in a small space is no issue. If thats what makes you happy then go for it. As someone said you should look into house apartments where you don't have many neighbors. My point was to make you understand why you may not get a small apartment with several people.
Your post is very accurate and thought out!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schermerhorn
OP, I am right there with you on this. My wife is Japanese and we've always lived in apartments that are small by American standards, and have never had a problem. I'd be very disappointed if a landlord or co-op board denied us because we didn't require as much space as they felt we should be requiring.
You'd think that in NYC of all places -- where there's always something to do and very little reason to stay cooped up in your apartment all the time -- co-op boards would understand that living space isn't that important.
In the building we're in now, we have 44 square meters, which is about 450 square feet, for the two of us. We could easily raise a kid here. In fact, we'll probably go back to Tokyo where I purchased my 400-SF "starter" apartment, and many couples there are raising one child, with one neighbor even raising two teenagers!
One very big thing that can be done to save space is to sleep on an Asian-style roll-out futon rather than on a bed. Beds are big space-hogs: most people don't store things underneath them, plus they typically leave two to three feet of space around at least two sides of them.
This sounds like I'm picking on you, Grosvenor -- rest assured that I'm not -- but I have to mention that "wouldn't be that much more" is only true if the OP makes a very high income. The traditional maximum monthly rent is 40x your annual income. So for someone making $50,000 or so, $1100 is just right whereas $1600 will make a landlord refuse you.
OP, can you use your wife's home culture as justification for your choice in living arrangements? When my wife and I move, we want to make our choice based on location rather than spaciousness, and would willingly sacrifice space for a shorter commute or a better neighborhood. Shouldn't this be the resident's decision and not the board's?
No worries. I'm not at all offended. Quite the contrary. My understanding is that the OP would have his salary and his wife's salary together to qualify for an apartment. If they want to rent an apartment in a co-op there is no way that the board is not going to consider the fact that they want to have four people living in a one bedroom apartment. I agree with you about there being much to do in New York City, but kids will be kids. They will want to run and jump and have fun and that may be at the expense of someone else's piece of mind. The board has to consider how a new occupant will affect everyone else and having four people in a one bedroom apartment does not send out a good message about QOL (quality of life) issues such as noise.
The issue with this is its not so common her in the United States. What is common is space, quiet, and relaxing time at home. I'm 1 person and live in a 1 bedroom, I would not be happy if 4 people in a 1 bedroom lived besides me, above me, below me, and next to me. That would take away me being able to enjoy my apartment. The plus of bigger apartments is you then don't share all walls with neighbors, some you share with you. So if neighbors are being loud and babies and kids are crying you can go to the room the doesn't share walls with them. The fact that you want and can live in a small space is no issue. If thats what makes you happy then go for it. As someone said you should look into house apartments where you don't have many neighbors. My point was to make you understand why you may not get a small apartment with several people.
I agree fully, from a personal, as well as LL point of view.
Your personal standards of living is your business, yet given that, you do not have the right to impose your personal standards nor desires onto your neighbors.
Buildings and apartments(, as well as *cultures*) are designed with a certain standard. One bedrm apats, no matter the size, are designed for a single, a couple, or either or with ONE child; and, a couple with child in a 1 bedrm is not expected to be a permenant circumstance. Note, a one bedroom with a couple and an infant is the intent. It is time to go, by the time the infant becomes a *child* (needing a bedroom)!
The reasons for this are rather obvious, when one rents and/or purchases a living space there is a certain expectation of enjoyment, "Quiet Enjoyment" among other specifics.
Using a living space beyond its design purpose creates excess, disturbance, noise, wear and tear, etc. Placing 4 into a 1 bdrm; or, into several 1 bedrms in one building creates greater traffic than the building and apartment were designed for, raising my maintenance costs.
As a tenant, I would have a problem, if a *family* occupied the 1 bedroom next to me. Enough so, that I would speak with the LL. Why? I have NO desire to deal with YOUR children, specifically, in light of my American sensibility, that you, apparently, cannot afford (cramming them into a one bedroom (such a small space))!
As a LL, the four of you into my 1 bedroom increases my *maintenance costs*! I receive the same rent, whether a single or four occupy the apartment. Yet, my water and hot water costs are quadrupled, and if I carry electric and/or gas, etc., those costs are also extended, while the rent is not.
So, as long as I have regular demand for my property, and no issue obtaining *good* tenants, I have no need to make concessions of any sort.
All great stuff, thank you everyone!
We will check out both options (one- and two-bedroom) and see what we come up with.
I should add here that I have seen plenty of two-bedrooms that are 750 sq ft in size. Yet, for some reason, a one-bedroom that's 800 sq ft in size is insufficient? Absurd.
Regardless, I appreciate the input very much!
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If you've ever visited Belgium and lived in apartments there, then surely you will feel as if you're living in a mansion in Riverdale.
