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Old 05-20-2013, 04:38 PM
 
8,743 posts, read 18,377,113 times
Reputation: 4168

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It's called business....and business is usually ugly, this being no different. It is ugly that soda companies use cartoons to sell toxic products to kids. It is ugly that McDonalds uses a clown to sell toxic food to kids...and on and on.

What this woman is doing is being an entrepreneur, and meeting a demand, nothing more, nothing less. It is moot what the people on the food lines want...she is not disturbing them, she is not asking them questions, and she is not engaging them in any way other than watching. This is the essence of a free country, and while you may disagree with the morality of her business, that only means you should not take the tour.

In the bigger picture I think she is doing a great service to those on the food lines, and that is: She is shattering the BS wealth image of NYC that is hyped and exploited across the world, and showing the reality of NYC, the vast poverty, and the poor conditions that the average NYer must endure. The more people who know about this, the more this poverty is exposed as rampant in NYC, the more likely it is people will take notice, take action, and demand more from the city and elected officials.

Maybe Ruben Diaz will actually do something when the world realizes the epic poverty pimp he is.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Riverdale, New York
1,283 posts, read 2,304,530 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
It's called business....and business is usually ugly, this being no different. It is ugly that soda companies use cartoons to sell toxic products to kids. It is ugly that McDonalds uses a clown to sell toxic food to kids...and on and on.

What this woman is doing is being an entrepreneur, and meeting a demand, nothing more, nothing less. It is moot what the people on the food lines want...she is not disturbing them, she is not asking them questions, and she is not engaging them in any way other than watching. This is the essence of a free country, and while you may disagree with the morality of her business, that only means you should not take the tour.

In the bigger picture I think she is doing a great service to those on the food lines, and that is: She is shattering the BS wealth image of NYC that is hyped and exploited across the world, and showing the reality of NYC, the vast poverty, and the poor conditions that the average NYer must endure. The more people who know about this, the more this poverty is exposed as rampant in NYC, the more likely it is people will take notice, take action, and demand more from the city and elected officials.

Maybe Ruben Diaz will actually do something when the world realizes the epic poverty pimp he is.
Let's be clear here. This isn't about New York City. The tours are happening the BRONX, a borough historically known for high crime and poverty, which might as well be separate from the rest of New York City in some people's minds. She knows exactly what she is doing, which is feeding into the stereotypes that outsiders have of the Bronx, which is that it is poor and dangerous. If you don't think she isn't doing anything to those people I have a bridge to sell you. I live in Riverdale and while I don't venture much to neighborhoods in the Bronx, I would not go to poor Bronx neighborhoods especially on a "tour" to see how poor people live.

These people are being taunted and what little dignity they may have had is being taken away in a sort of mockery, just as she mocked French tourists about the Grand Concourse asking if it was anything like the Champs-Elysées.

I don't think these people need to travel thousands of miles to see poverty. They're just getting their perceived stereotypes fulfilled by an outsider at that and I think it's disgusting. She is free to give tours but have some decency and respect for other people. Charging $45.00 a person to watch other people's misery is pretty low and at the end of the day I'm sure she gets to go home to a nice apartment or house while these people are just used for her personal entertainment and monetary gains.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:57 PM
 
8,743 posts, read 18,377,113 times
Reputation: 4168
Ok maybe I should be clarifying something for you:

1. When you say you live in Riverdale, it means you live in the Bronx. So you don't venture to the Bronx, you live in it.

2. I would not go on a tour of the Coca Cola factory to see where their toxic products are made, but that does not mean others don't find it interesting. Maybe we should shut down those tours also because I don't agree with it?

3. Where was it said that this woman is taunting these people, or even interacting with them in any way? Have you taken this tour or are you making this up? It does not state anything in the article, so you are making gross assumptions based on absolutely nothing. Her comment on the Grand Concourse is valid...it is an important statement to the fall of such a wonderful (Grand) boulevard.

4. If someone wants to see poverty instead of hyper wealth, what is the problem for you exactly? It's ok to see the fabulous brownstones on the UES, but make sure you hide all those poor folks..we don't want people seeing them! Hide the food lines, hide the homeless....best to pretend they don't exist! Cuz that's better than exposing the reality, right?

Take the tour, then report back to me and tell me how she is doing anything besides showing a side of NYC that politicians and businesses do their best at hiding. I want the world to see the epic poverty here, and understand that the hyper wealth NYC marketed across the world is NOT NYC. I want everyone talking about the reality of day to day NYers, the struggles, the filthy streets, the rats, the poverty and maybe when they stop coming because they are not happy about all the poverty, MAYBE, just MAYBE, something will actually be done to help people. Cuz pretending it doesn't exist isn't working, neither is pretending NYC is a wealthy playground.

I SAY EXPOSE IT ALL AND LETS HOLD OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS RESPONSIBLE. I WANT MORE TOURS AND I WANT MORE PEOPLE TO QUESTION THE IDEA THAT NYC IS A PLAYGROUND FOR THE WEALTHY.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:10 PM
 
1,682 posts, read 3,168,752 times
Reputation: 730
It would be different if this tour was created with the intent of raising awareness.

It's not.

Exploitation.

BTW, the Grand Concourse and surrounding areas do resemble a number of historical urban neighborhoods across Europe.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Riverdale, New York
1,283 posts, read 2,304,530 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
Ok maybe I should be clarifying something for you:

1. When you say you live in Riverdale, it means you live in the Bronx. So you don't venture to the Bronx, you live in it.

2. I would not go on a tour of the Coca Cola factory to see where their toxic products are made, but that does not mean others don't find it interesting. Maybe we should shut down those tours also because I don't agree with it?

3. Where was it said that this woman is taunting these people, or even interacting with them in any way? Have you taken this tour or are you making this up? It does not state anything in the article, so you are making gross assumptions based on absolutely nothing. Her comment on the Grand Concourse is valid...it is an important statement to the fall of such a wonderful (Grand) boulevard.

4. If someone wants to see poverty instead of hyper wealth, what is the problem for you exactly? It's ok to see the fabulous brownstones on the UES, but make sure you hide all those poor folks..we don't want people seeing them! Hide the food lines, hide the homeless....best to pretend they don't exist! Cuz that's better than exposing the reality, right?

Take the tour, then report back to me and tell me how she is doing anything besides showing a side of NYC that politicians and businesses do their best at hiding. I want the world to see the epic poverty here, and understand that the hyper wealth NYC marketed across the world is NOT NYC. I want everyone talking about the reality of day to day NYers, the struggles, the filthy streets, the rats, the poverty and maybe when they stop coming because they are not happy about all the poverty, MAYBE, just MAYBE, something will actually be done to help people. Cuz pretending it doesn't exist isn't working, neither is pretending NYC is a wealthy playground.

I SAY EXPOSE IT ALL AND LETS HOLD OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS RESPONSIBLE. I WANT MORE TOURS AND I WANT MORE PEOPLE TO QUESTION THE IDEA THAT NYC IS A PLAYGROUND FOR THE WEALTHY.
1. Here we just call it Riverdale.

2. It's not about agreeing with it. It's about morality and ethics and which most companies have that are in business. She's exploiting these people and the conditions that they live in to uphold long held stereotypes held by outsiders of the Bronx and filling her pockets in the process. You would think that these people have no ghetto's in their own countries, so they have to travel thousands of miles to watch other people suffer.

3. If you were homeless or poor would you like to have a tour bus stop and have people gawking at you in your misery and suffering?

4. If these people want to see it there is plenty of it in their own countries. They don't need to come here to see it as if they're so concerned about poverty. These people are being treated like specimens and there is no other way to put it. Dare I say that they are fulfilling their racist and long held beliefs about certain groups of people and about what they've been told about the Bronx which is that it's filled with poverty and scary dangerous people.

5. The politicians aren't trying to hide it. They are trying to give the Bronx a better image to encourage people to come here for other things aside from the poverty and crime.

I have no interest in going to crime ridden neighborhoods because I have no interest in making a mockery of other people's suffering.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,720 posts, read 20,049,253 times
Reputation: 2363
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokistic View Post
Hahaha wow... this is just mess up. Why don't she go to Brownsville where is way more Ghetto and dangerous there. They will have a better experience there.
No it's not. Mott haven was the worst ghetto in nyc. Crime rates are similar. You're drinking too much of the brownsville kool aid.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:46 PM
 
8,743 posts, read 18,377,113 times
Reputation: 4168
NYKiddo....it's called business, nothing more, nothing less. Every business exploits something...its business. If we want to have morality as part of business, I would LOVE that..but we would have no economy because nothing would exist besides homeless services and non-profits.

And regards to your answers Grosvenor:

1. You can call it Riverdale, but it's the Bronx. You live in the Bronx, get over it.

2. Nothing she is doing is immoral or unethical. She is conducting a business that does not negatively impact anyone..she drives through the borough and makes comments. So what?

3. If I were super rich, middle class or poor I would not want people gawking on me, but it happens. So what? Life ain't fair!

4. People will do whatever it is they want to do. And if they choose to do this, it has nothing at all to do with you. If you don't like it, don't take the tour. The end.

5. The politicians are trying to put "lipstick on a pig." They are trying to create a false image of the borough, and pretend the poverty of the Bronx isn't representative of the borough, but we all know it is. Should we pretend it isn't? Is that the solution? Should we only show tourists the Botanical Gardens, Yankee Stadium, and the Bronx Zoo and say "See the Bronx is a wonderful place"? NO.

I am glad you have no interest in going wherever, but what does that have to do with what OTHER people want to do? I don't want you to comment on city-data, so I guess that means you must stop commenting? It's all about imposing what I think is right on others....remember?

PS-Nowhere does the article state anyone is mocking anybody..this is your own made-up assumption. How about you stick to the facts of the article OR take the tour and report back? Until then, your opinion is wonderful (when based on fact), but it has nothing to do with other people's opinions, wants, needs, or interests.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
9,247 posts, read 24,077,765 times
Reputation: 7759
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokistic View Post
Hahaha wow... this is just mess up. Why don't she go to Brownsville where is way more Ghetto and dangerous there. They will have a better experience there.
Too much gas money and too much time to get to ENY or Brownsville.South Bronx is close and you have the added bonus of pointing out the ghettos and projects in Harlem on the way, to get the customers excited.Makes for a much better and less costly tour.More profit.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:49 PM
 
12,340 posts, read 26,132,425 times
Reputation: 10351
NY Times Bronx Tour Company Drops Pitch to See a Real Ghetto - NYTimes.com
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:50 PM
 
Location: NYC Metro
126 posts, read 133,444 times
Reputation: 53
i wudnt have a problem with it if they toured all of nyc, since other boroughs are full of ghettos too, but to single out bronx like that? thats foul
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