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I could get behind this, depending on what the plan looked like. If it was something similar to how Hylan Blvd is set up for the select buses I could see more widespread use being something I could support.
If there is enough ridership to justify a bus every 10-20 seconds, then I'd fully support it. I am just skeptical.
I don't think any route in New York City has enough volume to justify a bus at that frequency; any route with that demand already has a subway. A subway train can hold maybe (10 times?) more than a bus, so a subway train every 2-3 minutes is the same as a bus every 10-20 seconds. Some subway lines at rush hours and the lexington avenue has that volume, there's no bus route that gets the volume of peak hour subways into/out of Manhattan.
10-20 seconds for every bus would be a disaster. Any delay in boarding / exiting (can you even stop and pick up passengers in 10 seconds?), or random traffic would cause the whole line of buses to back up and jam. I don't think buses can handle very heavy passenger volume; that's what subways are for. But there's a lot of routes the subway doesn't cover well, but still has demand, a better bus system could be helpful to lots of people.
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As for costs, I don't understand how we can have express buses that cost 2 1/2 times that of a subway ride and BRT not have that premium when they require additional infrastructure.
I think express buses get priced higher because their lower volume means higher costs per rider. Also, they're usually longer-distance services marketed as "premium services", similar to the way the LIRR is priced higher.
I think express buses get priced higher because their lower volume means higher costs per rider. Also, they're usually longer-distance services marketed as "premium services", similar to the way the LIRR is priced higher.
By that logic, BRT would cost as much, if not more than express buses. I can't see too many people opting for this kind of service if there is a subway station within walking distance.
I think some of you have the wrong idea. Think of BRT as rapid transit, not local bus service. It operates the same way the subway does, only on the surface using buses.
With BRT, you could connect neighborhoods with high speed transportation and supplement other (East Side/West Bronx).
By that logic, BRT would cost as much, if not more than express buses. I can't see too many people opting for this kind of service if there is a subway station within walking distance.
With an express bus, the B/O (bus operator) drives for an hour, and picks up about 40-50 people (the capacity is 57 people, but on average, most lines aren't full to capacity). Meanwhile, on a local bus, the capacity is 80 people (130 for an articulated bus), and you have constant turnover. So the B/O driving for an hour on an articulated line might pick up over 200 people, whereas with an express bus, he only picked up 40-50 people.
And then on top of that, express buses tend to be heavily peaked. So you have a bunch of buses running into Manhattan with passengers, but then going back to their depot empty. (And vice versa in the afternoon). With local buses & BRT, the loads are more constant, so it's a more efficient use of that capacity.
Think about it: The subway requires more infrastructure than local buses, but as far as direct operating costs go, it actually makes money. Why? Because it moves the people more efficiently.
With BRT, it's like a local bus, but it moves faster, which also helps keep down costs because you can run more service with fewer drivers. (If a driver can complete 3 round-trips instead of 2, you can hold 50% more people for the same cost).
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Originally Posted by livingsinglenyc
What train line are you on that runs every 2-3 minutes. Mines typically 10 minutes, 8 minutes at best during rush hour.
During rush hour, a lot of lines run every 6 minutes. So you put two or three of them together on a trunk line, and your average frequency is about 2-3 minutes.
During rush hour, the (4) & (5) trains, as well as the (E) & (F) trains run every 4 minutes each. But when they're on the Lexington Avenue/Queens Blvd express tracks respectively, you have an average frequency of about 2 minutes going into Manhattan (and then of course, you have the locals which run every 3-4 minutes combined).
Pretty sure the Lexington Ave line does. I believe 2 minutes is the minimum headway possible with the current signaling system?
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