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Will the parent bashing on these boards never cease? I'm appalled at how many posters, since I've been on C-D, STILL are ready to give teachers, administrators, the DOE, the curriculum -- even the dysfunctional neighborhoods where so many under performing students live --and easy pass, and head right to the parents instead. (Or if they're more political, they turn to union bashing. Hey, without those greedy teachers and lazy parents public school would be great!)
Puh-leeze.
As I never tire of saying, there is a SHARED responsibility in improving public education in NYC, and every player has his part. If every single mother in Brownsville or East Harlem were a Tiger Mom, the schools would STILL have serious, serious problems, like a lousy dumbed down curricculums, rigid and inflexible school admission criteria, underfunding for supplies, ridiculous amounts of testing, crummy facilities for libraries and gyms, etc etc. Those are problems that parents cannot solve. I make no excuses for bad parenting, to be sure. But I make even fewer for bad educators and policymakers. They're the professionals and they should know better.
For the OP:
There is a city push now to get the more selective high schools to accept more students with IEPs. And if your child has scored 3s and 4s on standardized tests and does so again in the 7th grade, he probably has a good shot at one these schools when the time comes for him to apply, so I would look now to what the transportation situation is for where you are in the Bronx. Bard is one of these schools that is among the best in the city--but its on the Lower East Side. A year ago many of the selective high schools were exempted from having to take special ed students: (See here Elite & audition schools get special ed pass).
This year, the DOE changed the policy and reversed those exemptions. They ended up placing many students with IEPs in the top schools and some of the audition schools ahead of kids without IEPs. Many parents were in an uproar, citing the unfairness of it. (See here:Selective schools forced to take special ed kids) I don't know how it will work out--nobody does, for sure. So you'll probably have to check with parents at each individual school you're interested over the next year to see.
Personally I think the greater problem in NYC is that there are too many kids undermatched to their schools than overmatched. There are more kids capable of performing at a higher educational level than current metrics would have us believe, and when those kids are not given the education they deserve they give up, act out, leave, or all three. Its a far bigger mess than parents bitching about a few kids with IEPs taking up space at Bard, Beacon, or LaGuardia.
You are wise to start your search early. Talk to a lot of other parents, take school tours, buttonhole principals, keep reading. Do all that and with a little luck you and your boys will be fine.
Wow, that's really good information. I had no idea about that the selective schools even had a policy about kids with IEPs.
Blaming the parents to be a knee-jerk reaction of many. Children do not choose their parents and they are not of the age to make informed decisions about their education/future. I think that the schools have to work with the children and families that they have. If a child has parents that don't speak English and can't help with homework, accommodations should be made. If the only way for these children to succeed is a longer school day, so be it. There has to be a way. There are school models that are working for those who did not succeed in tradition schools, but they are more expensive. However, I think the investments in students would be well worth it in the long run.
The city could do a better job for many students. The public school system does work well for some kids. If your kid has some kind of issue, I think you'd find roadblocks thrown up left and right. It would be very long to fully go into this, but basically, if you suspect your child has a learning disability, and feel that he/she needs that specific problem addressed, you as the parent have to take your child for testing outside the school system, because NYC does not want to be liable to address the actual problem (this testing is insanely expensive). I'm not at all bashing teachers here, it's the city's policy. As a parent, you have to be ON IT. Not all parents are, but their kids shouldn't suffer because of it. It shouldn't be so difficult. You should be able to rest assured that the school your child attends is doing everything possible to address the issues of your child.
Another example. My son had terrible speech delays - was teased mercilessly because of it when he was younger. At his first school, the speech therapist was fabulous - I almost tear up thinking about her. At the second school my son attended, the speech therapist actually doesn't do speech therapy! They take children in a group and work on their reading/word recognition and call it speech (I'm sure this is to prepare students for state testing - pronounciation is not tested).
My son's IEP was not at followed period. I ended up getting an outside provider. Harder than it seems since the school did not want this, delayed giving me the letter, many speech therapists don't take kids one-on-one (money issue), and time is a huge concern if you work since these are usually short sessions several times a week during the work day. Anyway, of course children fall through the cracks. There is a child in my daughter's class (4th grade) with a severe speech problem even after many years of going to "speech". This will impact him for the rest of his life since these issues are much more difficult to treat after a certain age. It's heartbreaking. You can argue that his mother was not "on it". I don't think parents should have to be. By the way, this is a very well regarded school. I loved most of the teachers, but the services to students with special problems are severely lacking (occupational therapy too - I won't go into it). Academically, they make efforts, and I'm generally happy with the outcomes of my children there. But it has not been without a struggle.
yodel, I remember back in the days I'm talking about 20 years ago when I was finishing middle school we were given a big book with all the High schools in NYC and they're criteria. I'm pretty sure they should have that and you can start looking at this and doing your own research.
I know what you feel, I just enrolled my daughter into pre-k and the school that selected her was not the school that I wanted for her because with public school only zoned children go to the schools, well I was very persuasive and put her in the waiting list for the school that I wanted and today I went to do the registration for her in my priority school. I was soo happy, my family members say, "oh but that's only pre-k!" and I say you have to start them early with a good education. Good luck!
I'm so glad for you!! Best of luck for you and your daughter in her new school.
Blaming the parents to be a knee-jerk reaction of many. Children do not choose their parents and they are not of the age to make informed decisions about their education/future. I think that the schools have to work with the children and families that they have. If a child has parents that don't speak English and can't help with homework, accommodations should be made. If the only way for these children to succeed is a longer school day, so be it. There has to be a way. There are school models that are working for those who did not succeed in tradition schools, but they are more expensive. However, I think the investments in students would be well worth it in the long run.
These are hardly the biggest problems with kids who have academic difficulties. There are many families that have both parents working or cannot speak english yet kids perform excellently in school. The bigger obstacle are parents/guardians who simply do not value education at all. These are people who are constantly in and out of jail, do drugs and other vices in front of kids, do not want to remind kids to study/do homework (different from can't help), are hostile to performance feedback from teachers, have parents with a revolving door of partners, do not set high goals for their own kids etc. It's not a matter of handicaps anymore. It's a blatant distorion of values and common sense. To put it simply, if the parents willfully do not show that they value education, will the kids value education also? You can extend the school day but kids will still be more influenced by their parents than by teachers.
I myself am highly critical of public school teachers and administrators who cling on to their pensions and benefits but I have come across many who have been brought to tears out of sheer frustration. Some of them go as far as chase delinquent/struggling students at their own homes to no avail, with parents even encouraging lousy behavior.
These are hardly the biggest problems with kids who have academic difficulties. There are many families that have both parents working or cannot speak english yet kids perform excellently in school. The bigger obstacle are parents/guardians who simply do not value education at all. These are people who are constantly in and out of jail, do drugs and other vices in front of kids, do not want to remind kids to study/do homework (different from can't help), are hostile to performance feedback from teachers, have parents with a revolving door of partners, do not set high goals for their own kids etc. It's not a matter of handicaps anymore. It's a blatant distorion of values and common sense. To put it simply, if the parents willfully do not show that they value education, will the kids value education also? You can extend the school day but kids will still be more influenced by their parents than by teachers.
I myself am highly critical of public school teachers and administrators who cling on to their pensions and benefits but I have come across many who have been brought to tears out of sheer frustration. Some of them go as far as chase delinquent/struggling students at their own homes to no avail, with parents even encouraging lousy behavior.
I'm kind of in the no excuses camp for these issues. However, if the parents do not bring the children to school, they should be charged with neglect in my opinion. If they are the type you see sometimes on the subway, swearing at their children, then other measures have to be taken. I don't think that this type of parent makes up are 47% (or whatever percent is not non-graduation rate) of public school parents though. I think most are well-meaning but flawed as many of us are. If a child attends school regularly, he/she should be able to get a decent education.
I'm kind of in the no excuses camp for these issues. However, if the parents do not bring the children to school, they should be charged with neglect in my opinion. If they are the type you see sometimes on the subway, swearing at their children, then other measures have to be taken. I don't think that this type of parent makes up are 47% (or whatever percent is not non-graduation rate) of public school parents though. I think most are well-meaning but flawed as many of us are. If a child attends school regularly, he/she should be able to get a decent education.
A parent with a couldn't-care-less attitude towards education will impart the same attitude to their kids. They don't have to make their kids miss school (some of them do). They don't have to verbally abuse their kids (some of them do). All they need to do is show that they are not interested in their kids' studies and that is enough to throw their kids off track because no matter how teachers prod these kids, their attitudes will still be that their studies are not important. Consider that children are barraged with many distractions from gadgets, substances and TV that appear to be easier to absorb than studies. If there is nobody at home telling them to tune out of those distractions and put studies ahead, and if they see that the people they look up to themselves do not care, then they will have no incentive to prioritize their own studies.
I look at it from a Darwinistic POV. Educators should do what they reasonably can do, but beyond that the slackers should be allowed to fail and live with the consequences for the rest of their lives.
A parent with a couldn't-care-less attitude towards education will impart the same attitude to their kids. They don't have to make their kids miss school (some of them do). They don't have to verbally abuse their kids. All they need to do is show that they are not interested in their kids' studies and that is enough to throw their kids off track because no matter how teachers prod these kids, their attitudes will still be that their studies are not important.
My opinion is that these children may need longer school days, higher teacher/student ratios, more integration socially/economically. And for the record, I do think the mayor tends to scapegoat teachers rather than address the problems in a meaningful way. There are some bad apples, and it should be possible to get them out of the system more effectively. But you cannot attract the best people if they feel under attack. My issues are generally with policy.
How do longer school days and higher teacher-student ratios help them when they sit on the exam table and realize they haven't prepared enough to pass? I grew up in a very supportive environment yet still had to practice at home and do homework to learn how to use equations or write paragrahs. Even skilled trade employers like mathjack's company require a qualifying examination to be considered. There's no escaping from it. If they don't lift their share of the burden at home, they will have to reckon with failure when the time comes.
I'm kind of in the no excuses camp for these issues. However, if the parents do not bring the children to school, they should be charged with neglect in my opinion. If they are the type you see sometimes on the subway, swearing at their children, then other measures have to be taken. I don't think that this type of parent makes up are 47% (or whatever percent is not non-graduation rate) of public school parents though. I think most are well-meaning but flawed as many of us are. If a child attends school regularly, he/she should be able to get a decent education.
Based on the number you cited earlier, the rate would be in the thirties but you would be surprised at how many schools have a daily attendance rate of less than 75%---and that is only taking into account the period at which "official attendance" was taken. Personally, I was in a school where the daily official attendance rate during many months was less than 60%---once it was past lunch, since we were apparently not allowed to keep students in the building, it would plummet even further. We had attendance officers. We had counselors. We had people whose job was to call these parents regularly about attendance and lateness. (That is, if you could find a working phone number or a real address.) We had parents who blatantly lied for their children---I know, because I spoke to a number of them. And when you have a school where many of the students are commuting at least a half an hour, it's even harder to involve the parents. In a perfect world, we could all work together but...
Obviously not every school (or teacher) is perfect. But there are plenty of great schools with horrible teachers and plenty of terrible schools with amazing teachers. It's not so clear cut. Honestly, for things to change, the entire system would have to change.
We had attendance officers. We had counselors. We had people whose job was to call these parents regularly about attendance and lateness. (That is, if you could find a working phone number or a real address.) We had parents who blatantly lied for their children---I know, because I spoke to a number of them.
Abd this is the other consequence of accomodating weaker students. More resources are spent helping them than the stronger students whose abilities can be stretched further if they are challenged.
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