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Forest Hills, Kew Gardens, Rego Park, Fresh Meadows, Kew Garden Hills, Hillcrest and yes - Elmhurst and Flushing. Check how much it costs to buy a single detached house or townhouse in those neighborhoods. 2BR condo in Sky View (Flushing) sells for $825K. Doesn't sound like a poor area. Then add to that Bayside, Douglaston, Little Neck, Auburndale, Whitestone and Malba. All are either wealthy or middle class, and none suffered the financial blight that plagued today's gentrified Brooklyn in the 50s and 60s.
Parts of Jackson Heights and Corona are still low income but Brooklyn also has its share of poorer neighborhoods as do all boroughs.
A lot of people in Elmhurst or Flushing rent, and a lot of renters have been living there a long term and are rent stabilized. Even a lot of homeowners purchased quite some time go, when prices were cheaper so they may very well be LOW INCOME. Market rate prices can be high in neighborhoods that still have a lot of poverty, like Harlem and the Lower East Side. Even Jackson Heights and Corona didn't become quite as bad some parts of gentrified Brooklyn (Williamsburg was a busted up former industrial area), but they are far from wealthy or even middle class. I'd say Central Queens is very much working class (not including Forest Hills or Rego Park, they really do have more middle class people).
Actually, Chicago's real estate was hit. Certainly much harder than New York's. Chicago is much more vulnerable than New York. It has billions in unfunded pension liabilities as well, very similar to Detroit's. I know Detroit, Chicago and New York. You should kiss the pavement of Manhattan. You don't know what serious problems are until you've lived in these other places.
No question Chicago and NYC real estate were hit but not like the rest of the country. What's an average apt going for on Michigan Ave? What about a house in Wrigleyville?
NYC is one mayor away from disaster. Many of you forget that the primary reason the taxpayer base returned to NYC was that overall crime went down, and security went up in the 90s. Secondary was that welfare rolls shrank and scabs returned.
Bloomie has been fudging the numbers, but God-Forbid we get David Dinkins-incarnated in Nov, and crime returns, I am out of the City, along with 2 million taxpayers, tails between our legs. Let the city feed the welfare army by its fumes.
Detroit went belly up, partly because taxpayers abandoned it and stopped the gravy train. Why wouldn't it happen here?
No question Chicago and NYC real estate were hit but not like the rest of the country. What's an average apt going for on Michigan Ave? What about a house in Wrigleyville?
Actually, housing in much of the country was "hit" much like in Chicago or NYC rather than "crashed" like in the bubble markets of California, Arizona (Phoenix), Florida, and Nevada (Las Vegas). While foreclosures increased around the country during the recession,in most areas these were from people losing their jobs not because they were given a $400,000 mortgage when their total annual income was $50,000 annually.
So it is POSSIBLE than NYC could have a totally collapse. Doesn't mean that it WILL, but it CAN happen. Do keep in mind companies have been known to fudge their performance, (Worldcom, Enron, Arthur Anderson, among others of the 90s boom). JP Morgan Chase is under investigation for the very same thing NOW.
Sure, but as long as there are other companies who need their numbers fudged, NYC finance firms will have plenty of business
Seriously, predicting the collapse of the NYC economy is a no-brainer. Sure, it'll happen; all good things come to an end. The questions are "when" and "how hard". Does it have a 30+ year run followed by a slow decline, or does it collapse within the next 5 years? If you can figure that out, you're golden. If not, I suggest a sandwich board lettered "The End is Nigh" and a vigil in Times Square.
In the Gold Coast, on Lake Shore Drive my friend's condo was purchased for 350K in 2005. It was as low as 200K in 2009 and has finally rebounded but still is only at about 270K. In other words, people lost a lot of money in that market that has yet to be recovered.
It's all bullsh*t. NYC will go through hard times in the future, but never on the level of Detroit. That was my point, and I stand behind it.
THe Federal Govt comes through NYC aide all the time. 1863 was the largest riot and expression of civil disobidence America has ever seen, it happened in NYC. Federal soldiers came in to quil the rebellion and killed thousands of residents. Capital of wealth in NYC had to be protected. During World War 1 and 2 sabotage throughout major hubs can hault NYC war effort from various forms of its industries from financial, transport, to shipping. 1970s NYC was bailed out by the feds. NYC had to fix its books before it was allowed to invest in selling bonds again. 2008 Federal govt bailed out wall street. If the Feds did not bail out wall street, real estate, insurance and Finance industries would have nose dived through out the city.
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Originally Posted by Astorian31
Except 70's NYC was vastly different to current NY. Back then, NY's economy revolved mostly around Wall Street, and the city kept losing its middle class population to Long Island. People worked in the city and used city services but didn't pay property taxes in the city, which was a major loss of income for the city. When Wall Street was hit hard in the 70's, and NY didn't reign it's spending, it almost went bankrupt. But it recovered, the economy diversified, tRudy cleaned up the city, and the middle class moved back into the city. NY is economically stronger now than it ever was.
NYC had plenty of industries back in the 70s but many ended up packing up and moving to the suburbs where many people were moving too, leaving much of the residents unemployed. Plenty of manufacturing and industrial jobs left the city. Brooklyn Navy Yard and PA pier in Red Hook became obsolete, Longshore men jobs declined in the city, thr city ceased being a major port of entry for goods. Cities middle class declined and with its its tax base. Lets not forget that mayors such as John Lindsey and Wagner contributed to the cities economic decline with constant spending , along with city plannrr Robert Moses. Todays NYC is very different and is thriving but it's thriving off of debt. City has to pay for plenty of pensions and workers health care expenses which cost billions. NYCHA is a lame duck witj 400,000 backed up work orders, no money for the ailing industry, public schools in NYC is worse than ever. Plenty of retirees are taking their pensions with them to the south and investing there instead of retiring here in NYC. NYC once again has a declining middle class, this can be seen in recent census data with blacks moving aouth, decline in ethnic whites and with puerto ricans moving to FL, PA or NJ. Income inequality is a bad recipe for this city.
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Originally Posted by EastBoundandDownChick
Actually, Chicago's real estate was hit. Certainly much harder than New York's. Chicago is much more vulnerable than New York. It has billions in unfunded pension liabilities as well, very similar to Detroit's. I know Detroit, Chicago and New York. You should kiss the pavement of Manhattan. You don't know what serious problems are until you've lived in these other places.
Kiss Manhattan Pavement? Hell no. Maybe you can kiss the urine/herpes flacked streets of Manhattan like every Transplant who comes here. You should try visiting and living amongst the locals of a low income country were average citizens have to live around an daily income of 2 dollars a day, see people not crying for money but begging for food. Plenty of People in this country have it lucky, way too lucky. America is on the decline and Detroit is the 1st step in the process. NYC has plenty of debt that wont be paid back and will hurt the cities credit rating. Just remember 40 years ago NYC almost went belly up like Detroit.
What can we learn from NYC in 1976 and Detroit in 2013 bankruptcies? Cities need a middle class to thrive, without a middle class cities are doomed. I dont know how much money Uncle Sam has left in its coffers to bail out NYC.
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 07-21-2013 at 09:23 PM..
Actually, housing in much of the country was "hit" much like in Chicago or NYC rather than "crashed" like in the bubble markets of California, Arizona (Phoenix), Florida, and Nevada (Las Vegas). While foreclosures increased around the country during the recession,in most areas these were from people losing their jobs not because they were given a $400,000 mortgage when their total annual income was $50,000 annually.
In Florida for instance over built and over inflated properties? Whole condo buildings empty? No document loans or 103% financing. No question the job market is dismal now and has been for the last 6 years. What about homes under water? That is a real problem in large areas in the country compared to Chicago or NYC. It's nuts but even in a downtrodden real estate market large areas of NYC were still very expensive compared to rest of America.
NYC is one mayor away from disaster. Many of you forget that the primary reason the taxpayer base returned to NYC was that overall crime went down, and security went up in the 90s. Secondary was that welfare rolls shrank and scabs returned.
Bloomie has been fudging the numbers, but God-Forbid we get David Dinkins-incarnated in Nov, and crime returns, I am out of the City, along with 2 million taxpayers, tails between our legs. Let the city feed the welfare army by its fumes.
Detroit went belly up, partly because taxpayers abandoned it and stopped the gravy train. Why wouldn't it happen here?
No question these latest bozo's running for mayor are nothing but a bunch of pandering idiots. But let's also have a real actuary look at the books. For instance are you invested in a 401k? The market has been doing well. A cop friend of mine told me that their pension fund grew about 12% in the last 12 months. Remember these funds are well worth over a 150 million dollars. I do agree that the handouts need to be halted. 1 in 6 americans are on food stamps? Huge uptick in Americans applying for SS disability. How much does the Obama free phone cost American taxpayers. Guess what? It's gonna get worse because the ideology of the country has shifted. Can you imaging a politician saying he was going to discontinue these programs? What's scary with Detroit is that they were spending over 100 MILLION dollars a year more than they were taking in. can you imagine running your household budget in this manner? Let's see what Potus does.
NYC is destined to become another Detroit. Hopefully I will be very far away when that happens.
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