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As a Londoner who lives in Paris, I'm also quite interested in New York's society and demographics, and how it compares to these other two cities.
So while both London and Paris are big immigrant cities nowadays - London at least rivalling NYC for sheer diversity and as a percentage of its population from immigrant backgrounds - both Paris and London have a big population of traditional, white working class communities of old French and British descent. Cockneys in London, Parigots in Paris. There's a typical accent, culture etc associated with both.
I was wondering if New York had anything similar, i.e. working class people of old stock white American heritage (i.e. not of Italian, Jewish or Irish backgrounds) who were still prevalent in the city, and aren't recent transplants from other parts of the U.S.
If so, what's typical about them? What neighbourhoods do they inhabit?
Or would the Irish/Jewish real "Noo Yawker" be considered the ultimate real New Yorker... analagous to the Cockneys and Parigots across the Atlantic?
I was wondering if New York had anything similar, i.e. working class people of old stock white American heritage (i.e. not of Italian, Jewish or Irish backgrounds) who were still prevalent in the city, and aren't recent transplants from other parts of the U.S.
If so, what's typical about them? What neighbourhoods do they inhabit?
Or would the Irish/Jewish real "Noo Yawker" be considered the ultimate real New Yorker... analagous to the Cockneys and Parigots across the Atlantic?
I think so, the Italian/Jewish/Irish "Noo Yawker" would be considered the closest to old-time natives. You can find a few of old Dutch stock:
Definitely not working class, though. But there's a bit of a class division. Generally in the early 20th century in big cities, the natives were usually not working-class, while the immigrants were disproportionately working-class (division was particularly strong in New England). I read somewhere that in 1960 (pre-recent demographic changes) 5% of the city's population was old-stock White Protestant.
Growing up on Long Island, I can't think of anything you're describing. City would be less likely
If you mean WASP/Dutch old money, you can find them on the East Side, but there are not many left. That social class is pretty dissipated. The distinctive accent would be like FDR's accent, but again, it's mostly disappeared.
If you mean WASP/Dutch old money, you can find them on the East Side, but there are not many left. That social class is pretty dissipated. The distinctive accent would be like FDR's accent, but again, it's mostly disappeared.
I don't mean money, I mean working class Americans of early settler descent.
But thanks for the answers though, it seems that the Irish/Jewish/Italian New Yorker is the real old school New Yorker!
I don't mean money, I mean working class Americans of early settler descent.
But thanks for the answers though, it seems that the Irish/Jewish/Italian New Yorker is the real old school New Yorker!
Oh, sorry, I misread.
I think what G-Dale said is right--it's Germans.
In the part of the country where I grew up, the upper Midwest, many, perhaps most, working class people are of German descent. I think Germans were among the first waves of working-class immigrants to America.
In the part of the country where I grew up, the upper Midwest, many, perhaps most, working class people are of German descent. I think Germans were among the first waves of working-class immigrants to America.
My block was built by Germans for Germans over 100 years ago, and some of their ancestors still reside in these same homes. They spread from Williamsburg to Bushwick to Ridgewood to Glendale. Most are now in either Long Island or South Florida, but a few still remain.
Though those Germans weren't early settlers, either, anymore than the Irish are. But few New Yorkers are descended from early settlers. There weren't enough of them compared to the immigrants that came later.
And 100 years, those in traditional "working-class" jobs in NYC and in many northern cities were almost all recent immigrants. New England mills had few if any "natives" working by the late 19th century. A sign in front of an abandoned textile mill near me said the workers were mostly Polish or French Canadian. By now, though their descendants have mixed with the natives enough it's often hard to distinguish them. In NYC, some ethnic groups lean towards different industries. The garment industry, for example, was mostly eastern European Jewish. Construction trades I think tended to be Italian.
ny was already settled by the dutch when
it was annexed by the british in 1664.
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