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The problem is, the thugs will continue to sell drugs and commit crime, irrespective of stop and frisk, because they are caught up in the criminal lifestyle, and will not cease until they are behind bars. The mentality of the criminals however, should not be compared to the average law-abiding guy who happens to reside in the inner city.
You don't seem to be concerned with the fact that many young men from the inner city, who do not engage in crime, are stopped routinely and treated as though they are criminals. What impact do you think this has on their psyche and overall mental health? Do you really believe that this policy is pragmatic, given the fact that overwhelmingly, NYPD doesn't retrieve any drugs or illegal guns in the majority of instances?
I most certainly do believe that it's pragmatic. If they're doing nothing wrong, then they have nothing to worry about right? I've never been stopped by a cop for anything but if I was, I would have no problem complying with their orders. The most that a cop has ever asked of me was to step away from an event that was going on as it was cordoned off and I complied. He addressed me as sir in a very respectful manner and that was that.
Instead of being concerned with the cops, they should be concerned with their own people constantly breaking the law. Where's the outrage in that? The fact that their people do the majority of the crimes in this city and in this country for that matter is constantly OVERLOOKED and brushed aside. Now if their crime numbers were low, then I could understand the outcry of racism, but they commit the most crime, then turn around and complain about being targeted. What a joke.
I most certainly do believe that it's pragmatic. If they're doing nothing wrong, then they have nothing to worry about right? I've never been stopped by a cop for anything but if I was, I would have no problem complying with their orders.
I've never been stopped by the police either; however, I'm smart enough to realize that it does create many problems for those who are targeted by the police (even though they are innocent). Do you have any idea what a person is forced to endure during a frisk? Just watch one of the many videos available on youtube.
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The most that a cop has ever asked of me was to step away from an event that was going on as it was cordoned off and I complied. He addressed me as sir in a very respectful manner and that was that.
Your statements appear to be a little trollish. Surely, you realize that NYPD does not (usually) address the majority of young black men in a respectful or dignified manner. I suspect that if they treated all people across racial/ethnic and class lines with courtesy, they would have a much better reputation.
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Instead of being concerned with the cops, they should be concerned with their own people constantly breaking the law. Where's the outrage in that? The fact that their people do the majority of the crimes in this city and in this country for that matter is constantly OVERLOOKED and brushed aside. Now if their crime numbers were low, then I could understand the outcry of racism, but they commit the most crime, then turn around and complain about being targeted. What a joke.
Your statements are strange. As a white man, did you have any say in whether Madoff stole billions w/ his ponze scheme? Obviously, you had no association with him; therefore, you are not responsible for his actions. Likewise, the majority of black people can't control the actions of those who choose to engage in criminal activity. The most one can do is try to get ahead, by securing a good job and moving far away from the crime ridden areas.
I've never been stopped by the police either; however, I'm smart enough to realize that it does create many problems for those who are targeted by the police (even though they are innocent). Do you have any idea what a person is forced to endure during a frisk? Just watch one of the many videos available on youtube.
Oh, I've seen people stopped and frisked before and they weren't Black either. They were White youth. Cops aren't perfect, but let's not sit here and pin the high crimes rates of Blacks on the cops. It's egregious that the cops seem to be the ones on trial here. It's the Blacks that are creating the crime, not the cops and they commit the most crime, yet somehow you don't seem to be able to make this simple correlation. What about all of the non-Black people that are stopped and frisked? Are you concerned about their self-esteem as well or only the Blacks?
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Originally Posted by CityGirl332
Your statements appear to be a little trollish. Surely, you realize that NYPD does not (usually) address the majority of young black men in a respectful or dignified manner. I suspect that if they treated all people across racial/ethnic and class lines with courtesy, they would have a much better reputation.
My statements are not trollish. I'm simply stating things the way they are instead of sugarcoating things and being "politically correct", which seems to be the norm around here, so that automatically means that I'm trolling.
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Originally Posted by CityGirl332
Your statements are strange. As a white man, did you have any say in whether Madoff stole billions w/ his ponze scheme? Obviously, you had no association with him; therefore, you are not responsible for his actions. Likewise, the majority of black people can't control the actions of those who choose to engage in criminal activity. The most one can do is try to get ahead, by securing a good job and moving far away from the crime ridden areas.
Is that right? So they have no control over raising their children to be respectful, hard-working citizens? They spend plenty of time protesting about police brutality, but when do they go out and protest against their young youth committing countless crimes? Answer that one for me. I can't recall one such protest.
It's funny that anytime ANYONE says anything about Blacks taking responsibility for their actions, they're automatically labeled racist or their comments are viewed critically. I recall President Obama making comments about Black fathers taking responsibility and actually raising their children and the Black community didn't seem to care for that either. Heh, I wonder why. I guess it's always someone else's fault why there's a problem and never theirs.
In fact that's precisely the problem in some high-crime neighborhoods and why Stop and Frisk WORKS so well the way it currently is set up. If these thugs got it in those empty heads of theirs that we WORK to make a living instead of going around smoking weed all day and standing on the corner and being useless wastes in society, then the cops wouldn't have to use such drastic measures.
Are you aware that some of these stops have occurred in neighborhoods that DON'T have a lot of crime? The idea that criminals are leaving their guns at home is silly. That didn't stop that 14 year old in the Bronx last week, or that thug who paralyzed that little girl in Bed-Stuy a few months back or Kimani Gray.
The reaction to the judges ruling is mind boggling. All she she said was you need to CHANGE the method for these stops. She didn't say it's illegal. It's legal BUT you must stop using RACE as a factor and it is clear the NYPD is using race. 88% of those stopped are black and latino and only a tiny fraction of those stopped were arrested. And what were those arrests for? You can get arrested by simply mouthing off at the officer stopping you. Some of these young men don't know how to interact with an officer, so they become belligerent and it doesn't end well. Sometimes, the arresting officer can plant drugs on you as revenge for calling him a filthy pr**K and before you know it, your doing time for possession of a control substance. It happens. It's lazy policing with too many flaws. Policing should be more than just frisking people. It should involve intelligence gathering, surveillance, cooperation from the community, and more cops on the beat. Not driving in their cruisers!
In other words, MEND THE PROGRAM. That's it. And all the democratic candidates for mayor have said they would change how the program is used, except for Liu, who wants to abolish it all together, but he has no chance of winning. Bloomberg should have embraced these recommendations from the judge, instead, he does the opposite. His words will fall on deaf ears. Good luck with that appeal. Hell, those who criticized Obama for the NSA program, guess what, he's implementing changes and allowing third parties to oversee the program so they can unsure everyone that they are not violating the constitution. What is so wrong with that?
As far as the claim that crime will going up, well that's nonsense. Unless cops go on a strike and city's economy crashes, NYC will not revisit the bad ol' days. The city's demographics have changed over the years. Neighborhoods have too. Gentrification played a role in that. So many things happened over the years. It's not ONE thing or one program.
Are you aware that some of these stops have occurred in neighborhoods that DON'T have a lot of crime? The idea that criminals are leaving their guns at home is silly. That didn't stop that 14 year old in the Bronx last week, or that thug who paralyzed that little girl in Bed-Stuy a few months back or Kimani Gray.
The reaction to the judges ruling is mind boggling. All she she said was you need to CHANGE the method for these stops. She didn't say it's illegal. It's legal BUT you must stop using RACE as a factor and it is clear the NYPD is using race. 88% of those stopped are black and latino and only a tiny fraction of those stopped were arrested. And what were those arrests for? You can get arrested by simply mouthing off at the officer stopping you. Some of these young men don't know how to interact with an officer, so they become belligerent and it doesn't end well. Sometimes, the arresting officer can plant drugs on you as revenge for calling him a filthy pr**K and before you know it, your doing time for possession of a control substance. It happens. It's lazy policing with too many flaws. Policing should be more than just frisking people. It should involve intelligence gathering, surveillance, cooperation from the community, and more cops on the beat. Not driving in their cruisers!
In other words, MEND THE PROGRAM. That's it. And all the democratic candidates for mayor have said they would change how the program is used, except for Liu, who wants to abolish it all together, but he has no chance of winning. Bloomberg should have embraced these recommendations from the judge, instead, he does the opposite. His words will fall on deaf ears. Good luck with that appeal. Hell, those who criticized Obama for the NSA program, guess what, he's implementing changes and allowing third parties to oversee the program so they can unsure everyone that they are not violating the constitution. What is so wrong with that?
As far as the claim that crime will going up, well that's nonsense. Unless cops go on a strike and city's economy crashes, NYC will not revisit the bad ol' days. The city's demographics have changed over the years. Neighborhoods have too. Gentrification played a role in that. So many things happened over the years. It's not ONE thing or one program.
And again WHO just WHO are the people committing these crimes? Surely they aren't Blacks and Hispanics and that explains their outrage for being "wrongly" targeted. It must be aliens.
You haven't even addressed the other points I have made. Instead, you asked a question that has nothing to do with the flaws of the NYPD's S&F program. Kinda trollish if you ask me.
You haven't even addressed the other points I have made. Instead, you asked a question that has nothing to do with the flaws of the NYPD's S&F program. Sigh.
Oh it doesn't? Stop and Frisk has a lot to do with profiling individuals which is what cops do every day. It's part of their job to aid them in solving crimes and also tracking down suspects quicker. The fact that these two groups commit the most crime certainly plays a role in how cops view these two groups and how they profile them.
But never mind that. Let's continue to overlook this "minor" detail.
Oh it doesn't? Stop and Frisk has a lot to do with profiling individuals which is what cops do every day. It's part of their job to aid them in solving crimes and also tracking down suspects quicker. The fact that these two groups commit the most crime certainly plays a role in how cops view these two groups and how they profile them.
What crimes are you solving if you are RANDOMLY stopping black and latino men? Are you aware the NYPD will no longer keep records of those they stopped? Hmm, why is that?
" The New York City Police Department has agreed to clear its database of people who were stopped under the controversial stop-and-frisk practice but were cleared of criminal wrongdoings, according to the settlement issued Wednesday in the New York Supreme Court. In a move to settle the state lawsuit filed by the New York Civil Liberties Union in 2010, the NYPD has agreed to erase the database within 90 days.
We are not talking about APB on a suspect wanted for robbing a jewlery store at gun point.
Last edited by bmwguydc; 08-25-2013 at 05:42 AM..
Reason: copyright issue: snippet and link, please
I thought you said they were racially targeting Blacks and Hispanics? Now you state that they randomly stop them, which just proves that it isn't racially motivated and goes back to the point that I made earlier, which is that Blacks especially commit the most crimes, followed by the Hispanics, so let's not sit here and pretend that these two groups are being randomly stopped just because.
Grosvenor, you very badly need to take a sixth grade civics class.
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