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No. What you said doesn't warrant death threats. At least not on MY end.
Again, why are you even in THIS forum??
Don't they have crap to interest you in Nowheresville, USA?
You have no sense of humor, babe.
Somebody told me to go doing something to myself that is anatomically impossible.
I've been talking about this issue and I was slicing and dicing you as you defend the guy who got run over by the SUV and try to criminalize what the victim did.
I just noticed there were several threads on the NYC forum about savages doing this or that. So I had some fun with that.
I live in Greenville SC which isn't nowheresville. Most populated county in SC. You are going nowheresville in NYC most of the time when you drive. I can live without that.
Somebody told me to go doing something to myself that is anatomically impossible.
Not with the right "tools" it isn't.
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I've been talking about this issue and I was slicing and dicing you as you defend the guy who got run over by the SUV and try to criminalize what the victim did.
Go over ALL OF MY POSTS AGAIN, please.
I have NOT "criminalized" him. The man felt threatened and drove off, but in no way do I believe he didn't intend to run over the paraplegic guy. He saw him there, but didn't care. His fear overrode everything else.
I don't understand why he let those guys drag him out of the van and didn't floor it either in reverse. He already mowed down one. The SUV could have taken out several more. Oh well. Next time, I guess.
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I live in Greenville SC which isn't nowheresville.
Greens..who???
Last edited by marilyn220; 10-12-2013 at 12:18 PM..
I agree with you, as it is my regular experience using the WSH that there are police cars stationed along the route. When the highway transitions to elevated in the 50s, people tend to drive too quickly for road conditions, and the variable speed limits on that portion of the parkway. It is a common occurrence to see police cars, especially near the GWB. There should have been resources to deploy when the Lien's Sport was traveling, fleeing from a mob of angry bikers, as there would have been on a normal Sunday afternoon.
This event did not catch the NYPD off guard, or we are dealing with keystone cops in the city. The NYPD should have done what other cities would have done, including DC, where time off is canceled and officers are required to be on duty. That would have also had the net effect of not having officers riding in the pack of bikers. But, the NYPD knew enough to drive them away from Times Square, yet did not have resources to track the threat that was identified for Midtown?
I have no problem with rank and file officers who are told what to do. This failing is on the part of Ray Kelley and top brass who did not adequately deploy resources to protect the public. Officers do not protect individuals, yet they do protect the collective peace, and allowing a gang assault to occur in Washington Heights does impact the public peace. The mob may not have stopped with Mr. Lien/Ms. Ng (who by accounts was a target, too, but for the good of members of the public who intervened). Why the mob felt that she should be a target too is beyond me, as she was not driving; but, that explains that this was not a mob that was set to stop someone fleeing from a traffic accident, but one that was out of control. The NYPD had the intelligence that this event was occurring and that the potential threat to public safety was so great in Times Square that the bikers were prevented from setting up their stunts in the city, yet failed to act beyond the initial phase of engagement, resulting in this attack.
Given the resources at the NYPD's disposal, and progressive policies of top brass with respect to advancing policing for the appearance of safety, this event is a failure that shows that what makes for a good PR campaign may not exactly translate into increased public safety. The biker meeting was an organized event, not one that occurred on the spur of the moment, so there was time to plan for contingencies, yet the brass sought to remove the crown jewel from the pack, the Times Square shut down, and thought that they would just disperse and head home? I think that even a third grader could tell me that the net effect would be that the group would take their toys elsewhere and do something even more epic to show off. Sadly, that's just what happened.
I had to bold all of this, because both you and MadisonR are correct. I haven't been on the highway in awhile, but I know they don't pull the HIGHWAY PATROL off to work the streets. This makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
We're not at War. We haven't been invaded by anyone. We have enough regular street cops to handle 100 or so bikers.
The fact that every major news outlet is silent as to a severe lack of police presence is baffling. It's like they were told if they keep focusing on the bikers and every little bad thing they've done since pre-school, it will take the country's mind off WHY THERE WERE NO COPS AVAILABLE TO PRE-EMPT THIS SITUATION.
Is there any video or photographs of bikers closing off highway entrances? This is one of THE most insane and infuriating aspects to this story.
If you look at the chase video again and pay attention to the right hand side of the road, you will see the guy taking the video wave his arm as he comes to the on ramps and more bikes join the chase. In spots, there are cars and bikes stopped where the ramp merges with the highway.
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Originally Posted by MadisonR
There are plenty of cops to have handled this situation, particularly with the amount of time the road chase took on the WSHWY, as well as the notice given before the bikers even came into Manhattan en masse.
The NYPD utterly failed the city, and heads need to roll for it, with new policies, procedures and guidelines put into place to prevent mass ridings/gatherings of bikers from EVER happening again, with notice given that summary mass arrests and bike confiscations without the ability to re-acquire implemented. The cops are harsh and aggressive when they want to be, like the 2004 Republican Convention, Occupy WS, Parades, etc., but their complete inaction during this event is inexcusable, and can never, ever be repeated
The whole chase took about 6 1/2 minutes. With a limited access highway, there are fewer points for the police to join the chase. The police have to be made aware of the problem and then find it. If the nearest car is ahead of the chase, his only option is to wait for it to get to him. Is there a grassy median or turn around point for emergency vehicles in that stretch of road? If the nearest car was behind the chase, all he would see is empty road ahead of him. A crucial bit of missing information is how long it took for police and EMS to get to where Mieses was.
There were police at some of the on ramps. They made arrests and confiscated some bikes. They were deliberately distracted by some of the bikers in order to clear the stretch of road the other riders wanted closed.
The bikers did not have a permit for their shenanigans, obviously. NYPD knew it would happen this year, but they focused their effort on Times Square. How were they to know that this incident would happen in precisely that spot on that highway?
Folks keep saying that there were so many cops available that it is unreasonable that there was not one on the road at precisely the place the chase took place. I have seen the figure 35,000 for the entire size of the NYPD. That makes it sound like all 35,000 are on duty at one time. Even assuming no one was out sick or on vacation, only about a third at most would be on duty at one time. Since it was a Sunday, many with desk jobs would not be working, so that brings it down even further. Then, there are people whose job descriptions would not even put them in a position to intervene in an incident on the freeway. So now we are down to less than 10,000 for the whole city at that specific time. Even if you are used to seeing police on the freeway, what are the odds that a routine patrol would put a car at a specific place at a specific time? And don't you think the bike crew deliberately chose a place where there was not a cop?
The entire chase was over before a helicopter could be launched and get there. Why would NYPD put one up ahead of time? How would they justify the expense? Depending on the size of the helicopter, it may cost $400 to $800 per hour to operate.
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Originally Posted by MadisonR
Well, I've lived here in the 5 boros for almost 50 years, and travel the WSHWY almost daily, and there are cops present in HWY patrol cars (with the extended flashing light frames) on the west side of the hwy every few miles, plus some patrolling up/down. They were ordered not to engage the bikers, and basically clear off the highway - and there is no excuse for it.
Police do have to be careful when they get involved in a high speed chase. People not involved in the chase can get hurt. They may have been told not to try to catch speeding bikers. Patrol cars are pretty much useless against bikes anyway if the biker does not want to stop. However, you do really have to have some hard evidence to support the allegation they were told to completely stay off the freeway. There were bikes in other parts of the city, too, which diverted manpower.
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Originally Posted by MadisonR
I'll repeat, yet again - I ride the WSHWY almost daily, and there are always cops both parked along the hwy as well as driving alongside traffic - yet for SIX FULL MINUTES plus, not a single cop was seen in the video, including an illegal chase. This is simply not possible during the middle of the day on a Sunday, there is ALWAYS a significant police presence on the WSHWY, always. If they were not there, something occurred where they were pulled off.
During the chase you see very few four wheel vehicles of any kind. A few are on the ramps at merging points: stopped with bikes next to them. I firmly believe that the bikers controlled the ramps and tied up any NYPD that were at the ramps and potentially otherwise would have been on the freeway at the time of the chase.
This makes the situation even WORSE, because in reality the WRONG person is a paraplegic now.
It's sad for everyone involved. I just wish they'd stop harping on this man like HE was the one that forced Lien to stop his car. He wasn't. It's like they want him to wallow even MORE. I think his current punishment will be a literal hell on earth, especially when you're used to adrenaline type activities like he was.
while this is true, and I do again agree with you.
Mieses can thank Cruz for stopping and causing this madness.
So while he lays there, I am hoping he is thinking.
Boy do I wish my buddy Cruz didnt stop and cause this, because my life is over now, and gee, I really shouldnt have been on that motorcycle with no license and insurance.
I wonder if Miese and his dumb wife were thinking that? I wonder if the wife said to him before he left for the day, please hunny, dont ride a motorcycle until you get your licens back, we are not insured.
The biker meeting was an organized event, not one that occurred on the spur of the moment, so there was time to plan for contingencies, yet the brass sought to remove the crown jewel from the pack, the Times Square shut down, and thought that they would just disperse and head home? I think that even a third grader could tell me that the net effect would be that the group would take their toys elsewhere and do something even more epic to show off. Sadly, that's just what happened.
I do not think there was as much notice as you seem to believe. The best the NYPD could do would be to monitor the hollywoodstuntz social media accounts. It would be interesting to know when Lao started recruiting bikers. It would also have been very nice if the cops who participated had notified their bosses about when to expect the bikes to show up.
Of course, he's going to remember this incident for the rest of his life. It was a completely unnecessary situation that did NOT have to happen.
If the bikers DID close off the entrance ramps, then they should have allowed the remaining cars on the highway to bypass them, so that they could do their "stunts" or whatever it is that they do.
Here's what I've noticed about the local news reporting this: Not ONE newscaster has asked about the Highway Patrol or why it took so long for uniformed personnel to arrive on the scene. Not one.
absolutely, and I agree with this also, bigtine.
I too want to know where the police or highway patrol were, because any time I am driving around I see a cop or two or three, all the time, everywhere----------------------but where you need them.
and again, Ray Smelly, Mike Bloomturd, where have bert & Ernie been during this insanity.... what have they got to say????? havent heard a thing
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