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I'm SO happy that Ronald Reagan shut down all the state hospitals and for the last 30 years all the psychopaths have been wandering around the City.
Quote:
The Ugly: the closing of mental health hospitals in California and across the
United States. Is it any wonder that California seems to have all of the crazy
homeless people? State mental hospitals were taken away by Governor Reagan in
the seventies, and federal mental health programs were later taken away by
President Reagan in the eighties.
There are people who need to be kept separate from the rest of society and I DON'T mean those found with a pocket full of joints.
Why would you want to force a person who is not an immediate danger to themselves to seek treatment, btw? Forcing someone who is not an immediate danger to themselves or to others in a facility would be an unconstitutional act. Mental illness can be vague, and courts (only the judge can decide whether someone forcibly needs treatment) are only going to go after cases that are severe where the personal blatantly can't function.
Also, treatments for mental illness vary, and some medications have very nasty side effects. You don't want to give doctors complete power over someone's life just because the person has a diagnosis.
Not every mentally ill person is violent, for sure, and I'm not suggesting round 'em up and lock 'em away all the time, or even most of the time. But anybody familiar with mental illness knows that there are ususally very serious and strong signs beforehand that someone is becoming unhinged. No one just wakes up one day and decides to kill people or push them in front o fa subway. No one. There are ALWAYS signs: The Washington DC Navy Yard killer, the Virginia Tech killer, the guy who shot the congresswoman from Arizona, and the guy who shot up the theater in Colorado. All showed signs of deep instability before their deeds.
These are just the best known examples of people who were seriously sick beforehand and needed to be off the streets, but laws prevented them from being held. State-mandated treatment IS a tricky business and should never be undertaken lightly. It is vulnerable to abuse. But so is anything in the judicial system. Safegaurds would have to be taken to prevent such abuses. But I contend we (society) have swung too far in the direction of protection of rights of the mentally ill versus getting them treatment. And as that has happened, it's no coincidence that the violent mentally ill are increasingly among us wreaking havoc.
I'm SO happy that Ronald Reagan shut down all the state hospitals and for the last 30 years all the psychopaths have been wandering around the City.
There are people who need to be kept separate from the rest of society and I DON'T mean those found with a pocket full of joints.
Ah, so lurking within those often calling themselves liberals are fascists waiting to come out if they are scared.
To this day, if someone is a threat to themselves or to others, they can be involuntarily committed.
You cannot be committed for very vague things, like you once were in the past.
Many of the homeless btw have mental illness that's socially triggered. In other words, due to poverty, lack of education, etc they are socially marginalized and have issued being treated by **** by the rest of the society.
So basically, you Mr. Liberal, want to around up all the poor people and locked them away so you might feel safe? Yet do nothing to address housing and employment issues (stability goes along way in helping preventing people from being mentally ill)?
we have a mental place in my neighborhood, and one of the men wandered into our building, and my next door neighbor saw him going up the stairs to our roof.
we have since had alarms installed.
no, it doesnt make me feel safe with mental people walking around, violent or not.
The drugs given to treat so-called "mental illness" is often the cause of people snapping but of course there's no real investigation into this (and a deliberate media blackout) because big pharma got the system in its pocket
In the meanwhile they can push an "anti-scissor" ban so we can all feel safe at night /sarc
Maybe it's me but it seems like there's an uptick of violent assaults in the past few months citywide which is slightly worrying IMO. The increase of assaults on the West Side of Manhattan isn't a good sign either.
Subway passengers being pushed in front of trains (and in one case on the Metro North), stabbings and assaults in "safe" parks and now the motorbike gang incident doesn't make the best image of general safety of the city compared to previous years. Whether or not safety is slipping has yet to be determined. The rise in crimes could be the warm weather lasting longer than usual (crime usually increases during summertime) It's NYC and you need to be vigilant but maybe a bit more than usual? Has the NYPD cut back on its force and has less beat cops to cover neighborhoods?
For the in Riverside Park may have been prevented, the city and state is doing little to address mental illness, homelessness and affordable housing for those who need it. Which results in many mentally ill people being on the streets with the general public and could get commit a random act of violence at any time or anywhere. Homeless shelters can only do so much. Unfortunately many people who need care are not getting it, but then again you can't force anyone to get care even if they need it... It's a difficult and complicated issue which also has to do with top down political decisions made in the past decades which have already been addressed.
The drugs given to treat so-called "mental illness" is often the cause of people snapping but of course there's no real investigation into this (and a deliberate media blackout) because big pharma got the system in its pocket
In the meanwhile they can push an "anti-scissor" ban so we can all feel safe at night /sarc
True. Which is another reason why its a horrible idea to go back to earlier 20th century mass institutionalization.
Not every mentally ill person is violent, for sure, and I'm not suggesting round 'em up and lock 'em away all the time, or even most of the time. But anybody familiar with mental illness knows that there are ususally very serious and strong signs beforehand that someone is becoming unhinged. No one just wakes up one day and decides to kill people or push them in front o fa subway. No one. There are ALWAYS signs: The Washington DC Navy Yard killer, the Virginia Tech killer, the guy who shot the congresswoman from Arizona, and the guy who shot up the theater in Colorado. All showed signs of deep instability before their deeds.
These are just the best known examples of people who were seriously sick beforehand and needed to be off the streets, but laws prevented them from being held. State-mandated treatment IS a tricky business and should never be undertaken lightly. It is vulnerable to abuse. But so is anything in the judicial system. Safegaurds would have to be taken to prevent such abuses. But I contend we (society) have swung too far in the direction of protection of rights of the mentally ill versus getting them treatment. And as that has happened, it's no coincidence that the violent mentally ill are increasingly among us wreaking havoc.
The few cases you site are extreme cases that I doubt have anything to do with most of the homeless in NYC.
Many of the crimes committed by homeless people here, such as theft, happen when you have desperate people out on the streets (many of them addicts, but not all). So the crime is more social, and this people aren't really mentally ill. What youve said would basically lock poor people up in defacto concentration camps. And I doubt people in mass state institutions got careful therapy to try and address what was really going on with them (early 20th century you had lobotomies and electroshock therapy, among other rather extreme abuses).
The few cases you site are extreme cases that I doubt have anything to do with most of the homeless in NYC.
Many of the crimes committed by homeless people here, such as theft, happen when you have desperate people out on the streets (many of them addicts, but not all). So the crime is more social, and this people aren't really mentally ill. What youve said would basically lock poor people up in defacto concentration camps. And I doubt people in mass state institutions got careful therapy to try and address what was really going on with them (early 20th century you had lobotomies and electroshock therapy, among other rather extreme abuses).
Well, I can see you either jsut don't get what I'm saying or choose to ignore it. I've specifically said that I'm not talking about a retrun to the days of Willowbrook and Creedmor, or lobotomies or electroshock or any of that. But I am talking about the group homes that were supposed to replace those types of institutions and which, thanks to stingy to non-existant funding, never did. If you've ever been to a well-run one of these you can see what humane, long-term treatment for the seriously mentally ill look likes. They hold down jobs, they take their medication, they can have boyfriends or girlfriends and marry if they fall in love. They are supervised. It truly is a win-win for all inolved.
I also never said that housing isn't a problem. Clearly it is. Affordability is a poblem for people who have money and aren't mentally ill. But sticking an untreated mentally ill person in a place he can afford, without treatment, is not a solution. Housing in and of itself has never cured schizophrenia, depression, or bi-polar. The sick people would still be free to annoy, harass, and in extreme cases, to kill.
And because these illnessess, as I also said, are frequently diganosed or manifest themselves in adulthood when people are 18 and over, NO ONE can mandate treatement for them short of suicide or homicide. Not thier parents. loved ones, friends, or anybody else. I say again, that's just wrong. It's not helping the people who need help the most, and it endangers the rest of us.
Almost everyone sees that the bad incidents involving seriously mentally ill is increasing. Treatment is the obvious answer. It can only happen when folks admit that the best solution is or society to get serious about helping those who cannot help themselves.
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