How to find By-Owner Only apartments? (for rent, home, best)

[Cida]

So glad that you were cautious and pro-active.

Craigslist has a section specifically for "by owner," and even though agents wrongfully list there, it's usually pretty easy to tell if they're agents. But don't let one bad experience sour you forever. Apartments in larger buildings will often tend to be via management companies (who take care of the building) and rental agents (who are only involved for the brief time for that specific rental). You can also check for no-fee apartments. You can also check the New York Times; few people do these days, but it seems to be that the NYT ads are most likely to be legit.

You can't really verify that it's the owner, but you can use your best judgment as to whether the person appears to be knowledgeable and straightforward. Stay away from anyone requesting cash, of course.

By the way, you would be doing a good public service if you "flag" the Craiglist ads that are in "by owner" but are obviously posted by brokers.

[glaguna]

Full Disclose: I am a Licensed Real Estate Agent with Keller Williams NYC, my name is Genaro Laguna and my license is searchable on the New York State License Database: https://appsext7.dos.ny.gov/nydos/de...or=be5b051.0.0

First of all, that sucks that you lost that $500 dollars, I would send them a text / call and threaten to go to REBNY the Real Estate Board of New York or complain the Department of State, you can search for their license number via their name on the DOS Website.

Now to answer your questions let me help you understand why the Manhattan market is the way it is and how it differs from other markets.

1. Could someone explain the difference between an owner and a management company? Is this what "LLC" after a building name means?

---------- It is VERY RARE that you will come across and deal with an actual owner unless it's like a single condo/coop/apartment that he or she is putting up for rent, kind of like a single investment property that they are looking to make money on. The reason being is most buildings have multiple apartments even old walk-ups will have 5 floors and like 5 apartments so that's 25 apartments to manage and maintain which is low balling it by the way.

So what they do is they either hire an agency, or individual agent to handle everything for them, or they have an in house agent to handle it. That agent is paid one of two ways, either they collect a free from the tenant OR what a lot do is to create this "no fee" idea is they add like 100-300 per month on to what the owner originally wanted and so while you don't actually pay the fee to the broker upfront over the term of the year you do, as annoying as this sounds, you have to remember the world isn't free and everyone gets paid someway or another, and this just a part of life. This is the no fee apartment you really want. Other no fee apartments are for the very high end, they make so much money the owner has no problem paying the broker just to make sure the apartment doesn't stay vacant for long.

The other issue owners have and this is a big one that most people who are not in the industry don't understand is that NYC has A LOT of fair housing rules, and they are very strict. Owners don't want to deal with law suits.

If they look at you and don't give you an apartment you can sue them for discrimination etc, this is just an example BUT if they have an agent deal with you, and that agent only shows them you on paper no pictures, race background etc, just your income/assets etc and they deny you, then it was completely fair.

So to sum it up, in Manhattan with so many high rises and so many people and all these strict rules , get rid of this idea of speaking directly to an owner it's very rare. What you do want to avoid is shady agents who advertise in no fee sections then when they meet you they charge a fee. Actual no fee apartments do exist, I can help you, or try searching in google for no fee apartments I need to read up on policies for this forum otherwise I would give you some links to no fee sites, but they are limited.

2. Would working with a management company be akin to working with a broker or an owner? Am I setting myself up for just as much trouble?

- Same thing really, they are just agents for a specific landlord who owns a large portfolio, the advantage of a management company depends on you going to a place that would normally be a fee but since you worked with a management company directly they label it as no fee, to be honest the rent you are paying is probably a little higher to compensate for their labor. That's fair though since everyone deserves to be compensated for labor.

3. Is walking around a neighborhood and calling numbers on the sides of buildings really a good strategy? I've tried this once and just got a real estate company.

- Sorry but this won't work, the amount of work involved will lead you directly back to management companies, actual owners don't answer those numbers they have a team for that.

4. How can I verify that the owner I'm seeing is really the owner?

You will probably never meet an actual owner, I'm an agent and I barely meet actual owners, usually their management team handles the yes or no.

5. Any other tips to keep myself and my savings safe while doing this is appreciated.

Contact a broker and tell them you want a no fee apartment, they will still get paid just lower then usual.

In manhattan the standard rate for a broker in terms of apartments is 15% of the contract which is usually a one year lease. When it is a no fee apartment the owner pays the broker 8.3 % or ( 1 month's rent ) for bringing him a qualified tenant who signs a lease, the tenant doesn't pay the broker.

Sometimes a broker collects the fee from the owner, then collects the remaining 7.6% or whatever else from the owner as a "reduced fee"

Now that your questions are answered I am really sorry that you had to go through such a horrible experience. The unfortunate nature of this business is that a real estate license is so easy to obtain, it takes about 2-3 weeks if you go to class full time. Which means in city like New York the industry is flooded with a lot of people who really shouldn't be agents they are just because its easy to get a license and they want a quick buck. They end up doing a half ass job and trying to scam people. Luckily most agents don't make it pass 6 months, its very competitive and only the best of the top 20% actually make enough to earn a living.

What I do love about this industry is that you don't get paid unless you actually close a deal, which gives me determination to do a good job.

The advantage of using a broker is time and their database, depending on the company they are with the database is invaluable. For example I have access to 13,000 apartments in Manhattan and I am able to search through them instantly.

In closing: I would love to help you find an apartment, a true NO FEE apartment if that is what you want, other than your 1st months rent/security and application fee you won't have to pay me a dime. Yes it does limit your choices because not all owners are willing to pay the fee instead of the tenant but there are choices out there, great aparments. If you want to broaden your choices and dont mind paying a fee I will lower my fee to 10% it is the lowest I go. Message me here or contact me below.

My name is Genaro Laguna
Email is: glaguna@kwnyc.com
Cell is: 201 - 893 - 8631

My office is on 55th and Park Avenue, my company is Keller Williams NYC, Please don't just show up , call or email me for an appointment. I meet clients all day, and I want to make sure that I set aside the appropriate time to speak you individually and with my undivided attention.

[Cida]

One small correction to Glaguna's nicely detailed post: If you are renting from the owner of a coop/condo, or a small 2-unit or 4-unit building in the outer boroughs, you will be much more likely to meet the actual owner.

[goodlife36]

Craigslist.

[hilltopjay]

I guess Manhattan RE brokers have a different code and work ethic than other borough brokers because as a Bronx landlord, I have had the worse experiences with brokers. They would bring me crackheads on Section 8, thug looking people, people with poor financials, etc. I stopped using brokers about 15 years ago because of this. It was the best decision I've ever made. Brokers don't care who they bring into a neighborhood, all they care about is getting that commission.

[goodlife36]

Originally Posted by dxarmbar06

Nightmare scenario: I went to see an apartment in Fort Green listed for $1575, it was currently occupied. The agent showed me around, told me no utilities were included in the lease but hot water was somehow magically paid for. She said the move in date was in less than a week and I had to put a deposit down on the place if I wanted it fast before someone else did, but my bank was closed. I put down $500 in cash and they had me rushing all over Brooklyn trying to find a moneygram station and kept saying "we're going to put it back on the market, hurry we're working as hard as we can to hold it for you." They agreed to hold it for me until the morning if I agreed to return with a certified check for 3 months rent to "make my application look the strongest." I got home exhausted and something occurred to me, if the move in date was in less than a few days, the current tenant didn't look like he had a lot of boxes packed. I looked up the company from the business card the broker gave me and found they had an F rating with the BBB and tons of yelp reviews that said "run, save yourself." I found out they were generally regarded as a scam and if I'd given them any money don't expect to get it back. Just to be sure I texted them and asked when the other tenant was moving out, and the agent suddenly got fidgety, giving me "I think" answers trying to change the subject to whether I'd bring the certified check the next morning. I quit returning their calls and skipped the appt only to have calls and texts flood my phone saying things like "only bring whatever money you can and we'll push your application through....only bring $500 more...$350 will put your application through," doing anything they could to get whatever money they could out of me. It's 3 days later and I'm still getting calls asking for money. I'm not even going to try to get my $500 back, I know it's gone, I'm just so glad I didn't write them a check for $4400. I'm shaking.

Because of this experience I've decided to rent only from the owner, but I'm completely lost as to how to navigate the rental market in New York City and stay alive. The by-owner and no-fee sections of Craigslist turn out all to be fee brokers posing as owners, I've gone to see 3 apartments to meet the owner only to be diverted to the "owner's representation" and told there'd be a fee. If anyone can answer a few questions I have to help further my rental market education I'd appreciate it:

1. Could someone explain the difference between an owner and a management company? Is this what "LLC" after a building name means?

2. Would working with a management company be akin to working with a broker or an owner? Am I setting myself up for just as much trouble?

3. Is walking around a neighborhood and calling numbers on the sides of buildings really a good strategy? I've tried this once and just got a real estate company.

4. How can I verify that the owner I'm seeing is really the owner?

5. Any other tips to keep myself and my savings safe while doing this is appreciated.

Thank you greatly for any help and information I receive.

I am sorry that this happened to you. Some agents out there are scary folks. I recently rented out my home and I had the most horrible experience with agents. One of them actually stole my posting along with my pictures and tried to market the property as his own. . I would be wary of owners asking for three times the rent. Ask the person what his/her relationship is to the owner. What fees are involved?

Try naked apartments and craigslist. I used craigslist to market my property.

Good Luck!

[glaguna]

Originally Posted by goodlife36

I am sorry that this happened to you. Some agents out there are scary folks. I recently rented out my home and I had the most horrible experience with agents. One of them actually stole my posting along with my pictures and tried to market the property as his own. . I would be wary of owners asking for three times the rent. Ask the person what his/her relationship is to the owner. What fees are involved?

Try naked apartments and craigslist. I used craigslist to market my property.

Good Luck!

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with agents, question though how do you expect an agent to market your apartment for rent as best as they could if they don't use pictures? At the end of the day the point is to bring you a qualified client to rent your home, you get the contract not the broker, or am I misunderstanding what you meant?

[glaguna]

Originally Posted by hilltopjay

I guess Manhattan RE brokers have a different code and work ethic than other borough brokers because as a Bronx landlord, I have had the worse experiences with brokers. They would bring me crackheads on Section 8, thug looking people, people with poor financials, etc. I stopped using brokers about 15 years ago because of this. It was the best decision I've ever made. Brokers don't care who they bring into a neighborhood, all they care about is getting that commission.

I am sorry to hear you had such bad experiences, but to couple the actions of a couple of agents to determine how a community of thousands upon thousands of agents is kinda of discriminatory. I cant really speak about the neighborhood since I don't do any work in the Bronx and don't plan on it.

Btw I was born in the Bronx ;]

You should give agents a chance, but if its working just fine for you on Craigslist etc I guess no need.

We are not all the same.

[Alkonost]

Originally Posted by hilltopjay

I guess Manhattan RE brokers have a different code and work ethic than other borough brokers because as a Bronx landlord, I have had the worse experiences with brokers. They would bring me crackheads on Section 8, thug looking people, people with poor financials, etc. I stopped using brokers about 15 years ago because of this. It was the best decision I've ever made. Brokers don't care who they bring into a neighborhood, all they care about is getting that commission.

Any good broker will drop a prospective renter at the first sign of bad credit and dishonesty, you just won't be able to find those people an apartment, and if you do you run the risk of ruining your reputation with the owners. It's just bad for business.

Manhattan brokers generally come from brokerages that specialize in coop/condo sales, and a lot of the apartments rented are coops. So they're well versed on how to vet a prospective tenant since coop boards are notoriously hard to please and there's no way on this green earth to slip a bad tenant by them. Most high-rise rentals or large apartment buildings are managed by large management companies that also require good vetting of the tenant's credentials. Outer boroughs have a higher concentrations of small landlords, some who still seal a deal with a smile and a handshake, and some very gullible (unlike a coop board or a building management company). I can see how unscrupulous brokers (especially ones fresh out of their certificate class with zero experience) might converge on those owners like a swarm of locusts.

[glaguna]

Originally Posted by Alkonost

Any good broker will drop a prospective renter at the first sign of bad credit and dishonesty, you just won't be able to find those people an apartment, and if you do you run the risk of ruining your reputation with the owners. It's just bad for business.

Manhattan brokers generally come from brokerages that specialize in coop/condo sales, and a lot of the apartments rented are coops. So they're well versed on how to vet a prospective tenant since coop boards are notoriously hard to please and there's no way on this green earth to slip a bad tenant by them. Most high-rise rentals or large apartment buildings are managed by large management companies that also require good vetting of the tenant's credentials. Outer boroughs have a higher concentrations of small landlords, some who still seal a deal with a smile and a handshake, and some very gullible (unlike a coop board or a building management company). I can see how unscrupulous brokers (especially ones fresh out of their certificate class with zero experience) might converge on those owners like a swarm of locusts.

Very well said!