Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm a pre-med student, so I'll be honest and say I have NO clue if I'll even make it all the way through the medicine track and eventually become a licensed and trained MD/DO. Assuming I do, however, my dream has always been to move to the New York City area. Maybe not directly in the city but nearby enough that I could visit when I wanted. I'm originally from New Jersey but have lived in Georgia since I was 11 because my dad took a job here. I've been itching to get back to a more urban area ever since. I'm pretty miserable down here and just don't feel that I mesh well with the culture.
I figure that, if I become a doctor, I'll be in a better financial situation to move to NYC than I ever have been before. I have a few concerns about it, though. One concern is that I feel like it would almost be selfish to move to NYC to practice medicine given how saturated the area is with doctors already, many of whom are the best the country has to offer. So would it be selfish to move to such a well-served area when there are areas of the country where there are no doctors for hundreds of miles? Another other concern is the crime rate. My dad used to work in NYC, and he tells me all of the time that moving there or to any other big city would be the dumbest decision I could make as a woman because I WILL get mugged and even raped or killed if I'm especially unlucky. Finally, I'm unsure on what my chances of finding a job in NYC would look like. I know there's a huge doctor shortage in the country, and if I have a medical degree and finish a residency, there's little chance that I'll ever have to worry about not being able to find a job period. I know family medicine residents who practically have job offers thrown at them without even having to look for them. However, is it much more difficult to get a job as a physician in NYC where there are already doctors all over the place?
Just looking for some input on whether or not practicing medicine in NYC is a bad or unrealistic career goal?
No! Medicine ans health industry is growing in NYC. Also aome good medical programa from low cost Lehman college at CUNY to big names like Rockefeller, Cornell and NYU medical programs. Why not take the leap! I met one guy who works in fertility, most of his clients are married couples who are educated, career focuses and had children very late, he makes plenty of money here in NYC off of this industry due to growing number of people being career focused and getting married and having families early. Also met a woman who deals with autistic children in th Upper East Side due, she makes a tone of cash off of this. Who knew!
Being a fertility doc in NYC is good business. There are also plenty of career oriented women who decide to have kids at an old age when their natural fertility is at an all time low. So fertility treatments are needed to boost up that little natural fertility that might be left.
I have zero interest in being a fertility doctor. I'm not saying that won't change later on since I know people don't really know what they're interested in until a few years into med school, but right now, my top areas of interest are family medicine and dermatology. Maybe psychiatry and maybe neurology. I seem to bounce back and forth between "I can't stand neurologists and never want to be one of them" and "Neurology is fascinating, and I could totally see myself being a neurologist." heh. I've had bad experiences going to neurologists for my own health struggles. I digressed, though. Anyway -- is it a bad or unrealistic goal if you're not interested in fertility?
I'm not an expert on NYC but I can speak from my experience and knowledge on the career path in medicine. I've already walked the path with my spouse going through medical school, residency, then to practicing medicine in another country. Now we're doing it all over again stateside. Plus I have extended family who have acted as guides for us along this process that are also practicing medicine.
First, are you sure you want to become a doctor? Knowing what I know now about medicine I wouldn't recommend this path to anyone unless they really wanted it. If you're good at something else and it will take less money and time then go for that. It's not for the faint of heart. By choosing a career in medicine you have to want this every-single-day. It's a lifestyle that is 24/7 and not the usual daily grind from 9 - 5 with weekends and holidays off. There is something to be said for that if you want a family and get to celebrate birthdays and holidays together.
It helps to have an aptitude for the sciences and mathematics along with drive, ambition and a good support group. You also have to be willing to give up most of your social life for some time until you've reached a point where you're done with your medical education and training. There's 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school. Then based on what kind of medicine you want to practice there's 1-7 years of graduate medical education in a residency. Then you can do a fellowship which can be another 2-3 years on top of that, and you can choose to do more than one fellowship to sub-specialize which can be another 2-3 years. It can go on for as long as you like.
That said - you get what you put into it and you still have a long ways to go. At this point you probably don't even know what kind of medicine you want to practice. There will be things in medical school that you discover you have an interest in that you didn't even consider before. It won't be until 3rd or 4th year of medical school that you start to decide what medicine you want to do your residency in.
I'll also tell you if you want to practice medicine in the United States go to an American Medical School. They have the highest percentage of matching into a residency in the States than those that go to foreign medical schools. So if you're considering studying abroad at a medical school in Ireland or the Caribbean don't go that route, even as an American citizen, if you want to make sure you'll get into a residency after graduating from medical school. There's a couple reasons for this but I won't get into it now. Going to an American medical school ensures a 95% chance of matching into a residency program in the States where as less than half of the doctors that apply to residency that attended a foreign medical school will match into a residency program in the States.
Some resident specialties are more competitive than others. Also there is not a huge doctor shortage in the United States in all areas of medicine. The doctor shortage in the States "was" in primary care specialties which would include Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, Family Medicine, Ob/Gyn, and Psychiatry. Other specialties such as Ophthalmology, Orthopedics, Anesthesia, Emergency Medicine, Plastics, General Surgery, ect aren't experiencing a doctor shortage at all.
The reason I say the doctor shortage "was" in primary care specialties is because it's more of a statistic from the past. A number of new medical schools have opened in the United States and there is an increase in MD/DOs being produced. There is also an increasing number of American Medical Graduates (AMGs) choosing to go into primary care specialties. Based on a recent report from the Journal of the American Medical Association by the year 2015 the number of graduates from US medical schools is anticipated to surpass the number of positions in residency programs. See link and also this link. Congress hasn't increased the funding for residency programs to create more residency positions since 1997. However, I suspect with the implementation of the Affordable Care Act being rolled out in 2014 the increase in insured people needing primary care providers will create an increase in the demand for primary care doctors. The other thing mentioned is there is a percentage of the current physician population that is aging and looking at retirement. That will also create a need for new blood. The system is also changing and some physicians will adapt while others will opt to get out early. It's in a state of fluctuation and it will take time to see where everything lands. It will depend on many factors and it will go State by State too.
As for NY I know that there are A LOT of residency programs there and the healthcare landscape is changing there too particularly in Brooklyn. Last year the city saw a hit with "Super Storm Sandy" and some programs had to close and send residents elsewhere while other programs are in terrible disrepair, and even other programs are underfunded and undeserved. This year already two Internal Medicine Programs withdrew from the match due to lack of funding and changes in the healthcare landscape. That's just the ones I know about.
It's very doable to practice medicine in NYC but it's also far away and a lot can change by the time you get to that point. Also I'm not clear if you want to practice medicine in NYC in general after completing training, or if you just want to do a residency there. I should point out that if you're planning to do residency in NYC because you want to live in the city and experience it then you should probably know right now that you're going to spend 90% of your time in the hospital and barely get to see the city. The city is the largest in the United States and you're going to be very busy as a new resident. There is a rule about the 80 hour a week limit but most programs exceed that with residents reporting working 100 + hours a week as the normal. If you want to live there or a similar urban environment and practice medicine after training you can go for it then and probably have success. It's all what you want out of life.
So let me speak to what's ahead of you as far as the career path. There are lots of tests and fees involved and it doesn't end after training either. You'll have to get board certified every couple of years and do continued training on the latest techniques and go to conferences. First, you'll have to finish your undergrad and take the MCAT and go through the process of applying to medical school. Then during medical school while you're racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt you'll have the take the United States Medical License Examinations (USMLEs). There are three examinations you have to take to get a residency. These are known as the USMLE Steps. USMLE Step 1 is the basics, USMLE Step 2 CK is the clinical knowledge, and USMLE Step 2 CS is clinical skills. Each exam is around a grand and that's not including study material. Step 2 CS is only offered in 6 cities around the United States and unless you live in one you'll have to include travel expenses to fly there and stay in a hotel. It's set up as a clinic with actors who play patients and you have to diagnosis them and recommend a treatment for patient care. There is also a Step 3 but as an AMG you won't have to worry about taking that one until after your first year of residency.
Internal Medical Graduates (IMGs) have to take these same USMLE Steps to practice medicine in the United States. Most of the IMGs have already completed medical school in their home countries, or else where, and have gone on to get Masters/PhD's in medicine, and have practiced medicine. They can take Step 3 prior to applying for residency in the United States.
When you come to the point of applying for residency most 4th year AMGs and eligible IMGs can apply for the match through the Electronic Residency Application System (ERAS). This is an annual event that happens on September 15th. Applications also cost a lot of money. AMGs don't typically have to apply to a lot of programs because they're more likely to match. Based on the specialty they can apply to anywhere from 30 - 80 programs and they'll get well over 25 interviews which is more than enough to match. The average IMG applies to 150+ programs. Around 200 programs you're looking at spending close to 5 grand just on applications. That's not including the travel expenses for interviews. Interview invitations and rejections are sent out the very next day. We go our first response on Sept. 16th. They didn't even wait a day. I think you might have some idea about this already but just encase I'm covering the bases here because I'm getting to a point about the match process.
After the applications are submitted in September then comes the interview season which is held in all the hospitals across the United States with residency programs from October until mid-Feb. AMGs usually only have to submit their Step 1 scores for the match since they're still in school and then can take both parts of Step 2 during the interview season. Most interviews are over by January but there are a few in Feb before the Rank Order List deadline (ROL). The second part of the match process is applying with the National Residency Matching Program (NRMP) by the end of November usually. This is basically saying you're participating in the match and aren't withdrawing.
The NRMP is the algorithm that's designed to match all the potential residents with all the potential residency programs that want to work together in their order of preference. Most of the communication such as interview invitations from programs will be done through the ERAS system however. Once it gets closer to the time of the ROL deadline then you'll be ranking in order of preference where you want to do residency at based on how you felt your interviews went and what your career aspirations are at that point. Not every residency program may be having what you're looking for. Some will have more technology. Others will have the best educators. Some programs are research focused and others don't have the options that will help you if you want to go on to certain fellowships after residency such as cardiology, renal, ect.
Then after you submit your ROL then you wait until the third week of March to find out of you matched. The Monday of the third week of March is known as Black Monday. That's when everyone who applied for the match finds out if they matched. Those that medical graduates that didn't match and those programs that didn't fill all their residency slots will have to do what is known as the Supplemental Offer and Acceptance Program (SOAP) now. It used to be known as "The Scramble" where people try fill slots by phone and fax but now it's all electronic so it's called SOAP. SOAP goes from mid-Monday until the end of Thursday. That Friday is known as the actual Match Day and it's when the NRMP releases the information of where everyone matched and hospitals send out contracts to their new residents welcoming them to the program. For AMGs the majority will get their top two places that they rank depending on their desirability. Something like 5% of AMGs don't match. It's much worse for the IMGs. Over half that applied for the match and interviewed won't match and most won't get their top ranked programs. Plus it's getting super competitive for IMGs now that were used to filling the primary care gaps as AMGs start applying more broadly and taking those primary care spots.
So then after all the 4th year AMGs and eligible IMGs find out they matched then the AMGs going on to graduate from medical school in May and move to what ever State they matched in. Based on that residency (or graduate medical education programs) begin across the nation typically July 1st. Some programs start two weeks earlier in mid-June for orientation. They like to have their residents moved and setup in-State already so they can get them medically licensed in State. That means they have to have their new IDs from the DMV and paperwork in order. Lots of fun! It's also why it's suggested not to schedule your surgery in July ever because that's when all the new residents start fresh on the job training.
So that match process timeline I just explained is for most specialties but there are some specialties such as Urology that go on a different timeline and start earlier. Also this match process will be repeated based on what fellowship you want to go into and those also can have different timelines so not everyone is interviewing at the same time again.
That said - there is no guarantees. Residency is fickle. We don't get to pick where we want to go. We get to pick where we'd like to go, but in the end we all have to go where we're matched. It's better to match than not to match. If you get matched at your last place of preference and absolutely hate it sorry. You have to stick it out for the time being. Some people have success switching programs but with so much increased competition coming it's risky. I know one AMG that matched and then withdrew from the program part way through it because of personal matters. They've tried to match again after that and it's like they have the plague. No one wants to touch them since they broke their contract. They've spent thousands of dollars on applications in three other matches since then and still haven't matched again.
As for residency pay in NYC it's usually $10,000 more than the same residency programs in other areas because of the cost of living. And for the amount of money you make as a resident it's based on what year you are in. Post Graduate Year 1 (PGY1) is the starting base and it can go all the way to PGY8 in some cases. Also if you become Chief Resident it can mean a difference in pay but also because of the additional responsibility.
Some residency programs in NYC and even some medical schools in NYC offer subsidized housing. Not all programs do this but they have deals where they have so many apartments in a certain building that they can offer to residents or students at a rate the person can afford while the program or school pays the difference because of a group rate. My BIL and SIL had subsidized housing for several years through their medical school and hospital program during their medically based research PhDs in a big city on the east coast.
If you want to know pay range for residency go onto a hospital website that has a residency program from the ERAS list that I linked for the current 2014 match and type in GME or google a known program and GME together and you'll get to their benefits page. Some programs post it on their website. Not all programs have great websites but don't judge a program by that. They can still be great but not up to date with the online site. You might be surprised to learn what doctors make during training by looking up the GME salaries online. If you average out the 80 - 100 work weeks based on their yearly salary you'd see they make less than minimum wage in most cases during residency and fellowship. There's a common misconception doctors are rich but not all doctors are. They're paying off an average $400,000 debt for medical school while making less than minimum wage during training. It isn't until after training that the pay is better. It does get better but not until a decade later. Those in primary care fields aren't making as much as say someone in general surgery either. The more training the more pay but even if you average that out they're all making around the same amount of money over all. You do three years in FM or IM and then get out and make $200,000 + a year working in a hospital or private clinic while those that go on for further training for several more years will be missing that extra pay because they're making $35,000 - $60,000 depending on location and specialty during the training years.
About that support system I've mentioned. If you don't have family members or people around you for support then I suggest getting on the forums on the Student Doctor Network. Just jump in and ask away or search and read what you want. As a pre-med it might be more possible for you to go to medical school in NYC and get some experience of the city before residency, fellowship, or after training as an attending. They'll have more information on applying to medical schools and about the schools and areas you're interested in and what it offers you.
I'm tired now and should probably head to bed, so sorry for any confusing pieces or typos. Others here can speak more to NYC specifically probably and maybe what they know about the programs there too if anyone is in medicine and has the time to respond. I know so many people that could probably answer you better than I could but I'm not sure they're active on this site. However, when I was going through programs to apply to and using this site for statistics they did recommend this site to me for that. I'd never been on the forums here before and wasn't aware of them before they mentioned them to me again and specifically suggested to check the forums for information on the areas we're looking at living.
I have zero interest in being a fertility doctor. I'm not saying that won't change later on since I know people don't really know what they're interested in until a few years into med school, but right now, my top areas of interest are family medicine and dermatology. Maybe psychiatry and maybe neurology. I seem to bounce back and forth between "I can't stand neurologists and never want to be one of them" and "Neurology is fascinating, and I could totally see myself being a neurologist." heh. I've had bad experiences going to neurologists for my own health struggles. I digressed, though. Anyway -- is it a bad or unrealistic goal if you're not interested in fertility?
The best psychiatrist are also well educated in the field of neurology.
Thanks for the very detailed post, Merry Lee Gather! I was familiar with a lot of the information in your post and also unfamiliar with a good bit of it. I'm really familiar with the process of actually getting to med school (MCAT, prereqs, shadowing, volunteering, etc.) and with the general progression of steps once you get to med school. I know that med school is four years long, the first two of which consist mostly of book work, and that you then go onto residency, which varies in length and competition to get into, and I know that you can pursue fellowships after that point if you want to. I'm not as familiar with the exams you take while in med school (Step 1, Step 2, etc.) and with the licensing and certification process after residency. Good information to know; thank you!
I actually never gave much thought to the possibility of attending medical school or completing residency in New York. I've always read that the programs are much too expensive and competitive to get into, and I have to be realistic as a nontraditional student. I'm 24 years old with a BA in English/professional communications and completing my pre-requisites as a post-bacc student now. I always figured I'd have to go to med school in Georgia, then accept a residency wherever I can match, and then make the decision of where I want to practice after that. Maybe I'm overestimating how unrealistic it would be for me to study in NY, though. That would certainly be way preferable to remaining in Georgia for essentially the remainder of my 20s.
As for whether I'm certain I want to be a doctor? Honestly, no. I mean, I think I'm mostly certain I want to be a doctor, but I'm not so certain I want to commit to the extremely lengthy process required to get there. I'm mostly just concerned that I won't be able to do it since I have health issues; I worry that I'll get too overstressed and overwhelmed. That's a whole side story in itself, though. I am certain that I don't want to be what I'm doing now and that I want to get serious about pursuing a career for myself; I didn't do that the first time around in school -- my goal as an undergrad was basically to get good grades and figure the rest out later. So it's certainly likely that I'll change my mind at some point. I have no clue what else I'd want to do, though. Perhaps nutrition science, but that doesn't offer as much job or financial security.
*edit* Oh, and I am a member at SDN already.
I agree that the best psychiatrists are knowledgeable in neurology. There's a ton of overlap between the two areas.
Last edited by cognitivelydissonant; 12-06-2013 at 05:09 AM..
I'm not an expert on NYC but I can speak from my experience and knowledge on the career path in medicine. I've already walked the path with my spouse going through medical school, residency, then to practicing medicine in another country. Now we're doing it all over again stateside. Plus I have extended family who have acted as guides for us along this process that are also practicing medicine.
First, are you sure you want to become a doctor? Knowing what I know now about medicine I wouldn't recommend this path to anyone unless they really wanted it. If you're good at something else and it will take less money and time then go for that. It's not for the faint of heart. By choosing a career in medicine you have to want this every-single-day. It's a lifestyle that is 24/7 and not the usual daily grind from 9 - 5 with weekends and holidays off. There is something to be said for that if you want a family and get to celebrate birthdays and holidays together. U
It helps to have an aptitude for the sciences and mathematics along with drive, ambition and a good support group. You also have to be willing to give up most of your social life for some time until you've reached a point where you're done with your medical education and training. There's 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school. Then based on what kind of medicine you want to practice there's 1-7 years of graduate medical education in a residency. Then you can do a fellowship which can be another 2-3 years on top of that, and you can choose to do more than one fellowship to sub-specialize which can be another 2-3 years. It can go on for as long as you like.
That said - you get what you put into it and you still have a long ways to go. At this point you probably don't even know what kind of medicine you want to practice. There will be things in medical school that you discover you have an interest in that you didn't even consider before. It won't be until 3rd or 4th year of medical school that you start to decide what medicine you want to do your residency in.
I'll also tell you if you want to practice medicine in the United States go to an American Medical School. They have the highest percentage of matching into a residency in the States than those that go to foreign medical schools. So if you're considering studying abroad at a medical school in Ireland or the Caribbean don't go that route, even as an American citizen, if you want to make sure you'll get into a residency after graduating from medical school. There's a couple reasons for this but I won't get into it now. Going to an American medical school ensures a 95% chance of matching into a residency program in the States where as less than half of the doctors that apply to residency that attended a foreign medical school will match into a residency program in the States.
Some resident specialties are more competitive than others. Also there is not a huge doctor shortage in the United States in all areas of medicine. The doctor shortage in the States "was" in primary care specialties which would include Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, Family Medicine, Ob/Gyn, and Psychiatry. Other specialties such as Ophthalmology, Orthopedics, Anesthesia, Emergency Medicine, Plastics, General Surgery, ect aren't experiencing a doctor shortage at all.
The reason I say the doctor shortage "was" in primary care specialties is because it's more of a statistic from the past. A number of new medical schools have opened in the United States and there is an increase in MD/DOs being produced. There is also an increasing number of American Medical Graduates (AMGs) choosing to go into primary care specialties. Based on a recent report from the Journal of the American Medical Association by the year 2015 the number of graduates from US medical schools is anticipated to surpass the number of positions in residency programs. See link and also this link. Congress hasn't increased the funding for residency programs to create more residency positions since 1997. However, I suspect with the implementation of the Affordable Care Act being rolled out in 2014 the increase in insured people needing primary care providers will create an increase in the demand for primary care doctors. The other thing mentioned is there is a percentage of the current physician population that is aging and looking at retirement. That will also create a need for new blood. The system is also changing and some physicians will adapt while others will opt to get out early. It's in a state of fluctuation and it will take time to see where everything lands. It will depend on many factors and it will go State by State too.
As for NY I know that there are A LOT of residency programs there and the healthcare landscape is changing there too particularly in Brooklyn. Last year the city saw a hit with "Super Storm Sandy" and some programs had to close and send residents elsewhere while other programs are in terrible disrepair, and even other programs are underfunded and undeserved. This year already two Internal Medicine Programs withdrew from the match due to lack of funding and changes in the healthcare landscape. That's just the ones I know about.
It's very doable to practice medicine in NYC but it's also far away and a lot can change by the time you get to that point. Also I'm not clear if you want to practice medicine in NYC in general after completing training, or if you just want to do a residency there. I should point out that if you're planning to do residency in NYC because you want to live in the city and experience it then you should probably know right now that you're going to spend 90% of your time in the hospital and barely get to see the city. The city is the largest in the United States and you're going to be very busy as a new resident. There is a rule about the 80 hour a week limit but most programs exceed that with residents reporting working 100 + hours a week as the normal. If you want to live there or a similar urban environment and practice medicine after training you can go for it then and probably have success. It's all what you want out of life.
So let me speak to what's ahead of you as far as the career path. There are lots of tests and fees involved and it doesn't end after training either. You'll have to get board certified every couple of years and do continued training on the latest techniques and go to conferences. First, you'll have to finish your undergrad and take the MCAT and go through the process of applying to medical school. Then during medical school while you're racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt you'll have the take the United States Medical License Examinations (USMLEs). There are three examinations you have to take to get a residency. These are known as the USMLE Steps. USMLE Step 1 is the basics, USMLE Step 2 CK is the clinical knowledge, and USMLE Step 2 CS is clinical skills. Each exam is around a grand and that's not including study material. Step 2 CS is only offered in 6 cities around the United States and unless you live in one you'll have to include travel expenses to fly there and stay in a hotel. It's set up as a clinic with actors who play patients and you have to diagnosis them and recommend a treatment for patient care. There is also a Step 3 but as an AMG you won't have to worry about taking that one until after your first year of residency.
Internal Medical Graduates (IMGs) have to take these same USMLE Steps to practice medicine in the United States. Most of the IMGs have already completed medical school in their home countries, or else where, and have gone on to get Masters/PhD's in medicine, and have practiced medicine. They can take Step 3 prior to applying for residency in the United States.
When you come to the point of applying for residency most 4th year AMGs and eligible IMGs can apply for the match through the Electronic Residency Application System (ERAS). This is an annual event that happens on September 15th. Applications also cost a lot of money. AMGs don't typically have to apply to a lot of programs because they're more likely to match. Based on the specialty they can apply to anywhere from 30 - 80 programs and they'll get well over 25 interviews which is more than enough to match. The average IMG applies to 150+ programs. Around 200 programs you're looking at spending close to 5 grand just on applications. That's not including the travel expenses for interviews. Interview invitations and rejections are sent out the very next day. We go our first response on Sept. 16th. They didn't even wait a day. I think you might have some idea about this already but just encase I'm covering the bases here because I'm getting to a point about the match process.
After the applications are submitted in September then comes the interview season which is held in all the hospitals across the United States with residency programs from October until mid-Feb. AMGs usually only have to submit their Step 1 scores for the match since they're still in school and then can take both parts of Step 2 during the interview season. Most interviews are over by January but there are a few in Feb before the Rank Order List deadline (ROL). The second part of the match process is applying with the National Residency Matching Program (NRMP) by the end of November usually. This is basically saying you're participating in the match and aren't withdrawing.
The NRMP is the algorithm that's designed to match all the potential residents with all the potential residency programs that want to work together in their order of preference. Most of the communication such as interview invitations from programs will be done through the ERAS system however. Once it gets closer to the time of the ROL deadline then you'll be ranking in order of preference where you want to do residency at based on how you felt your interviews went and what your career aspirations are at that point. Not every residency program may be having what you're looking for. Some will have more technology. Others will have the best educators. Some programs are research focused and others don't have the options that will help you if you want to go on to certain fellowships after residency such as cardiology, renal, ect.
Then after you submit your ROL then you wait until the third week of March to find out of you matched. The Monday of the third week of March is known as Black Monday. That's when everyone who applied for the match finds out if they matched. Those that medical graduates that didn't match and those programs that didn't fill all their residency slots will have to do what is known as the Supplemental Offer and Acceptance Program (SOAP) now. It used to be known as "The Scramble" where people try fill slots by phone and fax but now it's all electronic so it's called SOAP. SOAP goes from mid-Monday until the end of Thursday. That Friday is known as the actual Match Day and it's when the NRMP releases the information of where everyone matched and hospitals send out contracts to their new residents welcoming them to the program. For AMGs the majority will get their top two places that they rank depending on their desirability. Something like 5% of AMGs don't match. It's much worse for the IMGs. Over half that applied for the match and interviewed won't match and most won't get their top ranked programs. Plus it's getting super competitive for IMGs now that were used to filling the primary care gaps as AMGs start applying more broadly and taking those primary care spots.
So then after all the 4th year AMGs and eligible IMGs find out they matched then the AMGs going on to graduate from medical school in May and move to what ever State they matched in. Based on that residency (or graduate medical education programs) begin across the nation typically July 1st. Some programs start two weeks earlier in mid-June for orientation. They like to have their residents moved and setup in-State already so they can get them medically licensed in State. That means they have to have their new IDs from the DMV and paperwork in order. Lots of fun! It's also why it's suggested not to schedule your surgery in July ever because that's when all the new residents start fresh on the job training.
So that match process timeline I just explained is for most specialties but there are some specialties such as Urology that go on a different timeline and start earlier. Also this match process will be repeated based on what fellowship you want to go into and those also can have different timelines so not everyone is interviewing at the same time again.
That said - there is no guarantees. Residency is fickle. We don't get to pick where we want to go. We get to pick where we'd like to go, but in the end we all have to go where we're matched. It's better to match than not to match. If you get matched at your last place of preference and absolutely hate it sorry. You have to stick it out for the time being. Some people have success switching programs but with so much increased competition coming it's risky. I know one AMG that matched and then withdrew from the program part way through it because of personal matters. They've tried to match again after that and it's like they have the plague. No one wants to touch them since they broke their contract. They've spent thousands of dollars on applications in three other matches since then and still haven't matched again.
As for residency pay in NYC it's usually $10,000 more than the same residency programs in other areas because of the cost of living. And for the amount of money you make as a resident it's based on what year you are in. Post Graduate Year 1 (PGY1) is the starting base and it can go all the way to PGY8 in some cases. Also if you become Chief Resident it can mean a difference in pay but also because of the additional responsibility.
Some residency programs in NYC and even some medical schools in NYC offer subsidized housing. Not all programs do this but they have deals where they have so many apartments in a certain building that they can offer to residents or students at a rate the person can afford while the program or school pays the difference because of a group rate. My BIL and SIL had subsidized housing for several years through their medical school and hospital program during their medically based research PhDs in a big city on the east coast.
If you want to know pay range for residency go onto a hospital website that has a residency program from the ERAS list that I linked for the current 2014 match and type in GME or google a known program and GME together and you'll get to their benefits page. Some programs post it on their website. Not all programs have great websites but don't judge a program by that. They can still be great but not up to date with the online site. You might be surprised to learn what doctors make during training by looking up the GME salaries online. If you average out the 80 - 100 work weeks based on their yearly salary you'd see they make less than minimum wage in most cases during residency and fellowship. There's a common misconception doctors are rich but not all doctors are. They're paying off an average $400,000 debt for medical school while making less than minimum wage during training. It isn't until after training that the pay is better. It does get better but not until a decade later. Those in primary care fields aren't making as much as say someone in general surgery either. The more training the more pay but even if you average that out they're all making around the same amount of money over all. You do three years in FM or IM and then get out and make $200,000 + a year working in a hospital or private clinic while those that go on for further training for several more years will be missing that extra pay because they're making $35,000 - $60,000 depending on location and specialty during the training years.
About that support system I've mentioned. If you don't have family members or people around you for support then I suggest getting on the forums on the Student Doctor Network. Just jump in and ask away or search and read what you want. As a pre-med it might be more possible for you to go to medical school in NYC and get some experience of the city before residency, fellowship, or after training as an attending. They'll have more information on applying to medical schools and about the schools and areas you're interested in and what it offers you.
I'm tired now and should probably head to bed, so sorry for any confusing pieces or typos. Others here can speak more to NYC specifically probably and maybe what they know about the programs there too if anyone is in medicine and has the time to respond. I know so many people that could probably answer you better than I could but I'm not sure they're active on this site. However, when I was going through programs to apply to and using this site for statistics they did recommend this site to me for that. I'd never been on the forums here before and wasn't aware of them before they mentioned them to me again and specifically suggested to check the forums for information on the areas we're looking at living.
Good luck!
Good post. But reading it gave me a headache. So thanks to you i have to pop ibuprofen and suffer from heartburn for the rest of the day.
Thanks for the very detailed post, Merry Lee Gather! I was familiar with a lot of the information in your post and also unfamiliar with a good bit of it. I'm really familiar with the process of actually getting to med school (MCAT, prereqs, shadowing, volunteering, etc.) and with the general progression of steps once you get to med school. I know that med school is four years long, the first two of which consist mostly of book work, and that you then go onto residency, which varies in length and competition to get into, and I know that you can pursue fellowships after that point if you want to. I'm not as familiar with the exams you take while in med school (Step 1, Step 2, etc.) and with the licensing and certification process after residency. Good information to know; thank you!
I actually never gave much thought to the possibility of attending medical school or completing residency in New York. I've always read that the programs are much too expensive and competitive to get into, and I have to be realistic as a nontraditional student. I'm 24 years old with a BA in English/professional communications and completing my pre-requisites as a post-bacc student now. I always figured I'd have to go to med school in Georgia, then accept a residency wherever I can match, and then make the decision of where I want to practice after that. Maybe I'm overestimating how unrealistic it would be for me to study in NY, though. That would certainly be way preferable to remaining in Georgia for essentially the remainder of my 20s.
As for whether I'm certain I want to be a doctor? Honestly, no. I mean, I think I'm mostly certain I want to be a doctor, but I'm not so certain I want to commit to the extremely lengthy process required to get there. I'm mostly just concerned that I won't be able to do it since I have health issues; I worry that I'll get too overstressed and overwhelmed. That's a whole side story in itself, though. I am certain that I don't want to be what I'm doing now and that I want to get serious about pursuing a career for myself; I didn't do that the first time around in school -- my goal as an undergrad was basically to get good grades and figure the rest out later. So it's certainly likely that I'll change my mind at some point. I have no clue what else I'd want to do, though. Perhaps nutrition science, but that doesn't offer as much job or financial security.
*edit* Oh, and I am a member at SDN already.
I agree that the best psychiatrists are knowledgeable in neurology. There's a ton of overlap between the two areas.
As I was writing that I was thinking to suggest nutritional science as an option for you if you weren't sure about becoming a doctor. It's still very possible as a non-traditional student to be successful in medicine and I'd say you're still young enough with the advantage of some additional life experience. There are several alternative medical career options than becoming a doctor that don't take as long, require as much personal sacrifice, or cost as much, but do offer job security such as a physician assistant, surgical technician, occupational therapist, respiratory therapist, physical therapist, speech therapist, researcher, coding, ect.
You'll have to do an honest evaluation of your capabilities and only you know what those are. You mentioned health issues so that's one consideration that may be limiting and there are other career options that are still good that won't bring on those kinds of issues and are less life threatening situations where people are counting on you. If you're good at math and science then go for one of the fields in engineering, computer science, food science, business, finance, health care information or health care management, ect.
If it's money and prestige you're concerned about - as far as job security, and getting serious about a career, and you're not sure about being a doctor, then please save yourself the time and don't become a doctor. There is not a lot of money in it and it's a lot of personal sacrifice. It's still early enough that your pre-reqs may be transferable to something more compatible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitlock
Good post. But reading it gave me a headache. So thanks to you i have to pop ibuprofen and suffer from heartburn for the rest of the day.
Sorry for the long post. Try some alka-seltzer for your tummy, avoid salty, sweet, greasy fried foods, and eat bland foods with plenty of vegetables and fluids until your symptoms go away, and try taking frequent breaks from the computer if you can so as not to aggravate your symptoms further.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
