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I listened to hip hop when I was younger and I believe the last hip hop album I bought was God's Son (yes, it's been that long). My taste in music has changed and I don't listen to it anymore but I would say the reason NY isn't relevant is that there is no longer a demand for true talent, creativity, and artistry when it comes to hip hop. You could literally make a hip hop song about ANYTHING now and it will be successful. In fact, "dumbing down" is really the way to go if you want to be commercially successful-- the numbers don't lie.
New York's brand of hip hop traditionally has always sort of been about challenging yourself and each other to be better and better lyrically and stylistically (I personally believe that's the whole point of 'beefs') and so New York rappers don't know how to let go of that. They are trying to survive in this industry while staying committed to that tradition but it's impossible to do both.
I saw some old footage of Nicki Minaj rapping in Queens (obviously before she became famous) and was blown away. Like, I seriously didn't know that she had been that good of a rapper because the hip hop music she's put out (perhaps not all) is just not of the same caliber. But then, I think if she had been trying to make it as an artist still rapping like she'd been rapping in that homemade video, for all her talent, no one would have known who she was (including me and I'm from Queens).
So, it all boils down to a lot of NYers just not willing to change with the times, I think.
Long story short, what you've said is.."NY rappers aren't willing to dumb down their product in order to achieve mainstream success." Good for them.
Mainstream rap right now reminds me of glam-metal of the 80's. People got burned out on it and turned to Nirvana/Pearl Jam etc..Bands that sounded real, had some truth to 'em.
It's only a matter of time before pop-rap fades and the mainstream start digging deeper.
There sure are some double standards being thrown out around here.
First of all, this concept of "southern hip-hop" is so intellectually lazy I can't even deal. Miami hip-hop sounds nothing like Atlanta hip-hop sounds nothing like Memphis hip-hop sounds nothing like Houston hip-hop sounds nothing like... you get the idea. And that's before we even get into the fact that trap isn't the same as crunk, and the fact that PLENTY of southern rappers don't work with either style. If you guys were once willing to accept that Bronx hip-hop heads weren't always doing the same thing as boys from Queens then seriously, how is that you're okay with lumping together all the artists from like ten different states and saying they have the same sound? Lazy.
Second of all, no one can really argue that hip-hop artists often change their sound or at least water their style down a lot in exchange for mainstream success, but the idea going around in this thread that this is somehow strictly a southern phenomenon HAS to be a joke. Y'all trying to tell me 50 Cent isn't mindless radio rap? Jay-Z? Ron Browz? Diddy?? C'mon now.
Third of all, all this talk about the underground scene in NYC and nobody stop to think that maybe just maybe there are underground scenes in other cities across America that maybe y'all don't know anything about because you're not living in those cities? Don't assume just because all you know about Miami is Rick Ross and Pitbull that that's all there is. You might never hear about a dozen other cats in Miami in THEIR underground scene.
I guess I shouldn't come to an NYC message board and be surprised when 90% of the posts are biased towards NYC, but some of these posts are just straight laughable.
Third of all, all this talk about the underground scene in NYC and nobody stop to think that maybe just maybe there are underground scenes in other cities across America that maybe y'all don't know anything about because you're not living in those cities? Don't assume just because all you know about Miami is Rick Ross and Pitbull that that's all there is. You might never hear about a dozen other cats in Miami in THEIR underground scene.
Did you respond with out reading the title of the thread?
Why be dramatic... "maybe just maybe there are underground scenes in other cities across America" like your actually saying something, when all your doing is stating common sense.
Of course all major cities/regions having an underground scene, but what does that have to do with 'Why did NY stop being relevant'?
Did you respond with out reading the title of the thread?
Why be dramatic... "maybe just maybe there are underground scenes in other cities across America" like your actually saying something, when all your doing is stating common sense.
Of course all major cities/regions having an underground scene, but what does that have to do with 'Why did NY stop being relevant'?
Here, let me hold your hand and walk you through it, since apparently you didn't get my point:
1) Thread starts out supposedly for the reason of figuring out what's "wrong" with NYC hip-hop.
2) Common response is that nothing is wrong with NYC hip-hop, it's just that all the good stuff is underground. It's only the mainstream stuff that sucks.
3) Another common theme running concurrently through the thread is that hip-hop in the South sucks.
4) Because most (if not all) of the people saying #3 are NY-based it's probably safe to assume they're making their judgments based off nothing but mainstream hip-hop from the South.
5) I jump in and point out the double standard of assuming something is "wrong" with hip-hop from the South based on nothing but what you hear on the radio.
Understand now? Or did you understand all along and you were just looking to pick a fight for no reason?
NYC artists are too busy leading the way with new contributions to world culture. New York gave birth to hip hop nearly half a century ago now, and it continues to be a breeding ground for exciting and inventive new art.
Also, I don't care what y'all say I love Nappy Roots, Outkast, and Three 6 Mafia - but even that stuff is like a decade or older now.
Second of all, no one can really argue that hip-hop artists often change their sound or at least water their style down a lot in exchange for mainstream success, but the idea going around in this thread that this is somehow strictly a southern phenomenon HAS to be a joke. Y'all trying to tell me 50 Cent isn't mindless radio rap? Jay-Z? Ron Browz? Diddy?? C'mon now.
Third of all, all this talk about the underground scene in NYC and nobody stop to think that maybe just maybe there are underground scenes in other cities across America that maybe y'all don't know anything about because you're not living in those cities? Don't assume just because all you know about Miami is Rick Ross and Pitbull that that's all there is. You might never hear about a dozen other cats in Miami in THEIR underground scene.
I guess I shouldn't come to an NYC message board and be surprised when 90% of the posts are biased towards NYC, but some of these posts are just straight laughable.
Where did anybody say that there aren't NYC rappers who have dumbed down?? (I even used Nicki Minaj as a prime example). Just saying that many NYC artists have not and will not because they came of age at a time (and the birthplace) where hip hop was still the hip hop it started out as.
Of course nobody is talking about underground hip hop in other cities; they don't live there! This is a NYC message board on a NYC thread, and the original question was specifically about the state of hip hop in New York. Underground hip-hop culture thrives in this city, particularly because it is closest to its roots and hip hop's roots are in NYC. Just as I'm sure jazz in the style of early jazz thrives in New Orleans and the blues in its purest form thrives in Mississippi.
Really don't understand what all this sensitivity is about when it comes to hip hop; no one is shading hip hop artists from other areas (personally, I think it's amazing to see people rapping in places like South Africa and Japan, etc.) but that doesn't mean we have to ignore its origins.
I think Imma have to give up. City-Data is a great, informative place but at least when it comes to musical debates, there ain't a whole lot of reading comprehension to be found round here. Everybody has his mind made up and that's that I suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amanthasay
Really don't understand what all this sensitivity is about when it comes to hip hop; no one is shading hip hop artists from other areas (personally, I think it's amazing to see people rapping in places like South Africa and Japan, etc.) but that doesn't mean we have to ignore its origins.
Wow, really? NO ONE? Did you read ANY of the posts before yours??
Hip Hop is dead. What hurt NYC is the absence of RAP CITY! RAP CITY was a great format for underground RAP. Now we have 106 & park, which is 100 percent comercial and auto-tune. Now the game is ruled by a lack of substance, something that real Hip Hop never was. Groups like Public Enemy, WU, Black Moon, and Brand Nubian dropped science. The powers that be don't want a positive message so now you get mindless oppressed music on the airwaves.
There sure are some double standards being thrown out around here.
First of all, this concept of "southern hip-hop" is so intellectually lazy I can't even deal. Miami hip-hop sounds nothing like Atlanta hip-hop sounds nothing like Memphis hip-hop sounds nothing like Houston hip-hop sounds nothing like... you get the idea. And that's before we even get into the fact that trap isn't the same as crunk, and the fact that PLENTY of southern rappers don't work with either style. If you guys were once willing to accept that Bronx hip-hop heads weren't always doing the same thing as boys from Queens then seriously, how is that you're okay with lumping together all the artists from like ten different states and saying they have the same sound? Lazy.
Second of all, no one can really argue that hip-hop artists often change their sound or at least water their style down a lot in exchange for mainstream success, but the idea going around in this thread that this is somehow strictly a southern phenomenon HAS to be a joke. Y'all trying to tell me 50 Cent isn't mindless radio rap? Jay-Z? Ron Browz? Diddy?? C'mon now.
Third of all, all this talk about the underground scene in NYC and nobody stop to think that maybe just maybe there are underground scenes in other cities across America that maybe y'all don't know anything about because you're not living in those cities? Don't assume just because all you know about Miami is Rick Ross and Pitbull that that's all there is. You might never hear about a dozen other cats in Miami in THEIR underground scene.
I guess I shouldn't come to an NYC message board and be surprised when 90% of the posts are biased towards NYC, but some of these posts are just straight laughable.
To bad the the original post doesn't back up your statement.
I think Imma have to give up. City-Data is a great, informative place but at least when it comes to musical debates, there ain't a whole lot of reading comprehension to be found round here. Everybody has his mind made up and that's that I suppose.
Wow, really? NO ONE? Did you read ANY of the posts before yours??
By all means, if you're going to have a tantrum every time someone doesn't prefer the kind of hip hop music styles, trends, etc. from outside of NYC, I would agree you should stay away from forums.
Critiquing is not shading. If an artist from Atlanta or LA, etc. is a good artist, he/she is a good artist and I don't think most people who claim to love hip hop would deny it.
The fact is, there are more not-so-good artists than there are good right now and because many with the greatest exposure/ or who are most visible come from the south it stands to reason that many artists who suck happen to also come from the south.
Does that mean that anyone who is from the south will necessarily suck as a rapper because of their origins? Obviously not. It just means that right now, for whatever reason, the market is ripe for sucky rappers from below the Mason-Dixon and THIS is what everyone hears on the radio and sees on their television.
Don't see why we can't call an ace an ace without stomping our little feet about it.
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By all means, if you're going to have a tantrum every time someone doesn't prefer the kind of hip hop music styles, trends, etc. from outside of NYC, I would agree you should stay away from forums.
