Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not only is this piece of crap crowded ALL THE TIME (WHY can't I find a seat at 3am, WHY?), but if you're lucky enough to find a seat you're still screwed as they're by far the most uncomfortable seats of any train. They're just wide enough and close together to accommodate two kids or perhaps two anorexic adults. If you're of average build--man or woman--prepare to be shoved up against the people on either side of you as everyone is pancaked together in this horribly tight-knit non-ergonomic seating formula.
All those talk about is what's coming. A SAS plan that's literally a shadow of it's former self. None say why it wasn't built. None say how far it would have extended. None mention how much it would have cost at the time of planning. Which, by todays standards, is really cheap. I mean, in the 30s, the entire IND Second System (100 miles of subway and who knows how many stations) could have been built at less than what it costs to build a mile of the current SAS. What's coming truly isn't the answer to the Lex's congestion if it doesn't go to The Bronx at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usul
I feel this way about the 1 Train.
Not only is this piece of crap crowded ALL THE TIME (WHY can't I find a seat at 3am, WHY?), but if you're lucky enough to find a seat you're still screwed as they're by far the most uncomfortable seats of any train. They're just wide enough and close together to accommodate two kids or perhaps two anorexic adults. If you're of average build--man or woman--prepare to be shoved up against the people on either side of you as everyone is pancaked together in this horribly tight-knit non-ergonomic seating formula.
Because it's a local that passes through neighborhoods that have a lot of restaurants, bars, clubs, theaters it's only natural that at night it would still be crowded?
The train cars are 9 feet wide, 51 feel long as opposed to the lettered lines that are 10 feet wide and either 60 or 75 feet long and have been since the first subway was opened in 1904. Now, there WERE attempts to possibly change the A division (IRT) cars to B Division (BMT/IND) dimensions. The cars on the 1 (R62A) were planned at one time to be 65 feet long. But the sections built under contracts 1 and 2 aka the first subway prevents that. The Dual Contracts sections (4/5/6 above Grand Central, 1/2/3 below 42nd street, the 7 in Queens) can fit Lettered line cars. In fact, the N and Q in Astoria run on a structure built by the IRT. The Platforms were just shaved back to support wider cars.
The longitudinal seating style has been the same ever since the first Elevated in 1868. The Bucket seating (The style you're referring to) has been around since 1972 with the introduction of the now retired R44s that used to run on the A line. The narrowness though obviously has to do with maximizing seating in the tight dimensions of the cars.
That 1 train goes through some very dense neighborhoods..the UWS/Morningside Heights/Washington Heights is lined with 5 story walkups everywhere you look, and with more businesses and nightlife opening, and more people moving in...expect the 1 train to get infinitely worse.
And I agree that if the 2nd Ave line is ultimately not extended to the Bronx at the least, it will be pointless to all but a few people and will not alleviate congestion.
in the 30s, the entire IND Second System (100 miles of subway and who knows how many stations) could have been built at less than what it costs to build a mile of the current SAS. What's coming truly isn't the answer to the Lex's congestion if it doesn't go to The Bronx at least.
Someone should have mandated that the Third Avenue El not be demolished, until the Second Avenue Subway was complete. At the same time, probably no one envisioned that increased traffic would slow bus lines to the point that people could walk faster than buses move during rush hour.
If it wasn't for the introduction of one-way streets, Manhattan would be gridlocked.
Thanks God for William Phelps Eno & Henry Barnes! William Phelps Eno - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_B...affic_engineer)
"You can't be a nice guy and solve traffic"
Someone should have mandated that the Third Avenue El not be demolished, until the Second Avenue Subway was complete. At the same time, probably no one envisioned that increased traffic would slow bus lines to the point that people could walk faster than buses move during rush hour.
If it wasn't for the introduction of one-way streets, Manhattan would be gridlocked.
Thanks God for William Phelps Eno & Henry Barnes! William Phelps Eno - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_B...affic_engineer)
"You can't be a nice guy and solve traffic"
Many wanted the Third Avenue El gone because it was holding down property values and so forth of that part of the UES/Yorkville. We live not far from Third Avenue and cannot imagine how that beautiful light filled place would be with an EL still there.
As it is you have much less density on Third than say Columbus or Broadway on the UWS that were largely developed after the subway came along.
Someone should have mandated that the Third Avenue El not be demolished, until the Second Avenue Subway was complete. At the same time, probably no one envisioned that increased traffic would slow bus lines to the point that people could walk faster than buses move during rush hour.
If it wasn't for the introduction of one-way streets, Manhattan would be gridlocked.
Thanks God for William Phelps Eno & Henry Barnes! William Phelps Eno - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_B...affic_engineer)
"You can't be a nice guy and solve traffic"
It actually made more sense to keep the 2nd Avenue El as it was the strongest of the four and you still would have gotten Bronx 3rd Avenue service and the 129th Street Terminal may or may not have been abandoned and torn down.
Many wanted the Third Avenue El gone because it was holding down property values and so forth of that part of the UES/Yorkville. We live not far from Third Avenue and cannot imagine how that beautiful light filled place would be with an EL still there.
There may have been pressure to complete the SAS, to allow for the demolition of the 3AE. Once the 3AE was gone, there was no beautification incentive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTA1992
It actually made more sense to keep the 2nd Avenue El as it was the strongest of the four
Except. how could the SAS be constructed, with an existing 2AE sitting above Second Avenue? Especially, using the 'cut & cover' method?
I agree,
Third Avenue, my nexus, has become one of the nicer Avenues of the UES, far prettier than First, Second, or Lex and far less sterile than Park although the running garden on Park makes it unique.
Nicer than the open cut! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...eet_Portal.jpg
Ironically, there were Central RR stops along Park Ave., at 59th, 72nd & 86th streets, back in the day, giving a better grade of service to Grand Central.
Last edited by bigjake54; 01-22-2014 at 10:29 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
