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I'm fine with it, I'm just amazed that some of them actually expect us to feel sorry for them. With the exception of the most truly Dickensian of cases, I really do not give a you-know-what if you're stuck in NYC, hate it, and can't move because of financial issues. There are children being bombed in Syria, and you're irate because your studio apartment is small as compared to what you could get in Kansas City? Don't expect any sympathy from most of us. Life is too short. If a place truly makes you miserable, drop the damn excuses and move. Period.
I always love comparisons to the lower common denominator, as if hard working Americans should not be pissed they're getting dumped on financially by the system and politicians and banks and so on because in the barbarous third world people have it worse. Example: "Think you have it rough? There's a kid in Africa starving to death."
It's an internet forum. It's for leisure and entertainment and release and some of that entails venting.
Reality for many people - especially non-transplants - is that we can't just pick up and move. Family, jobs, homes, children - there are plenty of reasons why REAL people (ie, non-hipster transplants who wander around the country 10 times in their 20's alone) cannot just pick up and move on a dime, and therefore complain about this cesspool of a city until everything lines up correctly.
In about a month I'll be in the state and city I hope to eventually land in for good, far, far from here. But with a family, career, and home to worry about, that can't happen in the blink of an eye. As a native NY'er, I can complain about this city all I want until I move.
I really do see your points. In terms of getting a good job, finding a good home, finding good schools, that may require thought and planning. So unless you already have a house somewhere, for a lot of people its something you need to put thought into. Also, you don't want to move out of one unhappy situation into a new situation which is also going to suck.
Most absolutely is the cradle of "modern" civilization. Think of the millions of oppressed Irish, Jews, etc.. who came here without a dime to their name and built a life for themselves and their families. Where else would people have the foresight to stamp a huge grid on the city with large flowing avenues and a massive massive park in the middle of it all. I love the boldness, the ambition - yeah that's it, the AMBITION is what fuels everything for me. People think big here, it's not "no we can't", "let's not try", "that's just crazy" - can't stand that sort of small town mentality. Work smart & hard, and there's pretty much no limit to what you can accomplish in NYC
For many of those people, NYC was just the entry point, though. If you were able to get enough money to move to a place where you could buy property, you did.
Today, NYC has few Irish. Even many of the Jews who are middle to upper middle class have moved out (with the exception of wealthy Manhattanites and poor Hasidics living in the outer boroughs). That doesn't mean I'm saying NYC is bad. But clearly many of those immigrants you mentioned abandoned NYC for other places, and this pattern is repeating itself for more recent immigrants. On a long term basis NYC works best for the rich and for the poor. Hard to make a comfortable living if you're in the middle.
Last edited by NyWriterdude; 02-22-2014 at 03:54 AM..
I always love comparisons to the lower common denominator, as if hard working Americans should not be pissed they're getting dumped on financially by the system and politicians and banks and so on because in the barbarous third world people have it worse. Example: "Think you have it rough? There's a kid in Africa starving to death."
It's an internet forum. It's for leisure and entertainment and release and some of that entails venting.
I'd agree on the venting piece; however, my point was that the folks doing the venting have no right to get upset when the rest of us ignore them or don't give a rat's behind about their problems. I was accused a few times of being "heartless" because I could care less about these chronic NYC whiners. Again, the true cases of privation are another matter entirely.
And for the record, I think some of those "hard-working Americans" need to see a bit more of the world and learn how to put things in true perspective. There are plenty of people who work a lot harder than many of them and yet have a lot less...and you don't even need to leave this country to see plentiful examples of that.
I'd agree on the venting piece; however, my point was that the folks doing the venting have no right to get upset when the rest of us ignore them or don't give a rat's behind about their problems. I was accused a few times of being "heartless" because I could care less about these chronic NYC whiners. Again, the true cases of privation are another matter entirely.
I understand your sentiment regarding privation. I am not a history expert, but I am a history buff, and pay attention to what goes on in the world, not just what goes on in NYC.
However, when you have sizable areas of a country or an entire country in which ordinary middle class folks can't "make it" and are having hard times raising families--seriously, a regular component of what makes a first world country, ordinary middle class folks simply working hard and raising families--that means something is wrong. Hence why, although I obviously understand "perspective", it seems disingenuous when Western man is compared Third Worlders living in squalor, as if being just a rung above that is what anyone in a first world country would aim for or should aim for or if a government can allow stuff like that to happen if it is so common somewhere. That's why third world countries are called third world; they're usually characterized by a tiny wealthy minority; a fat, greedy dictator; and a stupid, disenfranchised mass of millions of desperate, starving, clawing citizens. Wait... that sounds like NYC if anyone would take into account that NYC consists of more than the wealthier areas of Manhattan and FOUR other boroughs.
This phenomenon is un-American and un-European.
When people speak of NYC, it's almost as if they do not even know that NYC encompasses more than a few areas of Manhattan.
Quote:
And for the record, I think some of those "hard-working Americans" need to see a bit more of the world and learn how to put things in true perspective. There are plenty of people who work a lot harder than many of them and yet have a lot less...and you don't even need to leave this country to see plentiful examples of that.
As I said, I know this. I am middle class and live in Queens. I am not suffering. I go out to eat, I have decent clothes, I can save some money, I have a car, and I even have some financially comfortable that would help me if I ever fell flat on my backside. But again, as I've said ad nauseum, when a country has so much poor or ordinary middle class folks are being squeezed dry, it's not a good sign.
I understand your sentiment regarding privation. I am not a history expert, but I am a history buff, and pay attention to what goes on in the world, not just what goes on in NYC.
However, when you have sizable areas of a country or an entire country in which ordinary middle class folks can't "make it" and are having hard times raising families--seriously, a regular component of what makes a first world country, ordinary middle class folks simply working hard and raising families--that means something is wrong. Hence why, although I obviously understand "perspective", it seems disingenuous when Western man is compared Third Worlders living in squalor, as if being just a rung above that is what anyone in a first world country would aim for or should aim for or if a government can allow stuff like that to happen if it is so common somewhere. That's why third world countries are called third world; they're usually characterized by a tiny wealthy minority; a fat, greedy dictator; and a stupid, disenfranchised mass of millions of desperate, starving, clawing citizens. Wait... that sounds like NYC if anyone would take into account that NYC consists of more than the wealthier areas of Manhattan and FOUR other boroughs.
This phenomenon is un-American and un-European.
When people speak of NYC, it's almost as if they do not even know that NYC encompasses more than a few areas of Manhattan.
As I said, I know this. I am middle class and live in Queens. I am not suffering. I go out to eat, I have decent clothes, I can save some money, I have a car, and I even have some financially comfortable that would help me if I ever fell flat on my backside. But again, as I've said ad nauseum, when a country has so much poor or ordinary middle class folks are being squeezed dry, it's not a good sign.
Actually, the news does not refer to a "third world" anymore. At the most they are referred to as emerging markets. Living standards between emerging markets and the US and Europe have narrowed.
A substantial percentage of the entire US, unless they inherit from their parents will not become property owners. This isn't the 1950s.
Living standards have gone UP in emerging markets (with the exception of war torn disaster zones) and they have gone DOWN in the United States in Europe. They will level out.
Just because you have a job does not mean you're middle class. I think Americans are delusional. There's an actual middle class here, but because it pains so many people to admit that they are poor, you have people working retail or fast food CLAIMING that they are middle class.
Union level benefits, where you have a pension, health care, among other benefits including paid sick days and paid holidays were never there for the majority of Americans and this was during the height of union power.
In the US outside a place like NYC, yes, more poor people have homes and have cars. But many of them may not have health care. Many of them may be a paycheck or two from total disaster. Many of them may not have sick leave, paid holidays, etc. Many of them may be working extremely long hours just to eat and go homeless.
Americans should get off their high horse and stop with the third world nonsense. Have you been to California? California cities have massive numbers of homeless people. Its been like this in California for DECADES. New York had a terrible homeless problem in the 80s that Giuliani brutally covered up in the 90s, now that same homeless problem is back and bigger than ever.
The only thing keeping many Americans from starving is government benefits. If the Republicans continue to cut that, it will be terrible for some people. Now, I'd rather have an economy that had better jobs available than one that focuses on welfare, mind you. But that doesn't change the fact that poverty is a BIG ISSUE here in the states and that at this point, Americans should stop pretending that they are magically better than other countries. US citizenship does not automatically entitle you to a good life.
Actually, the news does not refer to a "third world" anymore. At the most they are referred to as emerging markets. Living standards between emerging markets and the US and Europe have narrowed.
A substantial percentage of the entire US, unless they inherit from their parents will not become property owners. This isn't the 1950s.
Living standards have gone UP in emerging markets (with the exception of war torn disaster zones) and they have gone DOWN in the United States in Europe. They will level out.
Just because you have a job does not mean you're middle class. I think Americans are delusional. There's an actual middle class here, but because it pains so many people to admit that they are poor, you have people working retail or fast food CLAIMING that they are middle class.
Union level benefits, where you have a pension, health care, among other benefits including paid sick days and paid holidays were never there for the majority of Americans and this was during the height of union power.
In the US outside a place like NYC, yes, more poor people have homes and have cars. But many of them may not have health care. Many of them may be a paycheck or two from total disaster. Many of them may not have sick leave, paid holidays, etc. Many of them may be working extremely long hours just to eat and go homeless.
Americans should get off their high horse and stop with the third world nonsense. Have you been to California? California cities have massive numbers of homeless people. Its been like this in California for DECADES. New York had a terrible homeless problem in the 80s that Giuliani brutally covered up in the 90s, now that same homeless problem is back and bigger than ever.
The only thing keeping many Americans from starving is government benefits. If the Republicans continue to cut that, it will be terrible for some people. Now, I'd rather have an economy that had better jobs available than one that focuses on welfare, mind you. But that doesn't change the fact that poverty is a BIG ISSUE here in the states and that at this point, Americans should stop pretending that they are magically better than other countries. US citizenship does not automatically entitle you to a good life.
Agree with most of what you say here but don't think American's are pretending that they are better off than the rest of the world.They actually believe it.They hear over and over that this is the greatest country,that we have the highest living standards,the best health care,the best educational system,the best this and the best that and they believe it.Since most Americans don't have passports and don't travel outside the US they don't know any better.
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