New York vs. London (single life, cleanness, safety, etc.) (Spencer: rent, crimes)

[DC90]

I'm a very frequent visitor to London and New York City, IMHO, is a bit cleaner and nicer than London (excluding trains, the Tube is cleaner than the NY Subway). But they're both clean enough considering how dense they are.

But I LOVE London. They're both fun, but NYC is more alive than London. London seems a bit more expensive than NYC, however. Both very cosmopolitan.

You can't go wrong with either cities!

[Mekitor]

Originally Posted by birdinmigration

I actually meant that "70's NY" more in terms of how filthy and cruddy London looks, of course if you just see the tourist areas you miss a lot of this. (Thank you, Red Ken, for the congestion charge, and not much else.) A friend of mine, NY native who lived in NYC in the 70's and is in London now completely agrees with that. NY is sparkling clean compared to a lot of cities, including London.

I'm not trying to debate with you whether NY or London is more crime-infested. I'm just trying to make the OP aware that in the continuum London is not as safe as people might think (and there are no, quote unquote, "safe areas", you can get mugged or beaten up anywhere at any time of day or night). I think 'ethnic identity' gang violence in NY gets more media attention, but there are random bad kids just hanging on the streets in other world cities that are just looking to have some fun at your expense. It happened to a lot of people I know.

All of this is just my opinion anyway. Go to London, have a great time, and stay aware. And don't leave valuables in hotels or hostels, watch your drink (they have rufi over there too) and don't drink too much. Bad things happen to people who drop their guard, especially Americans who go over there and think "London is one of the safest cities in the WORLD."

My friend/co-worker (who lives in Harlem by the way for more than two years now - no crime has happened to her, yet), was visiting London and one day while she was in a nice area (around 6pm) she made some turn and she ended up face to face with a bunch of young people. Well they started to harass her and some one took her purse. She said they also film everything on a cell phone while laughing at her. She talk to the police and they did nothing. She seems traumatize. But she lives in Harlem but she seems ok there!! LOL. Interesting.

[nycistheplace2]

Originally Posted by birdinmigration

I actually meant that "70's NY" more in terms of how filthy and cruddy London looks, of course if you just see the tourist areas you miss a lot of this. (Thank you, Red Ken, for the congestion charge, and not much else.) A friend of mine, NY native who lived in NYC in the 70's and is in London now completely agrees with that. NY is sparkling clean compared to a lot of cities, including London.

I'm not trying to debate with you whether NY or London is more crime-infested. I'm just trying to make the OP aware that in the continuum London is not as safe as people might think (and there are no, quote unquote, "safe areas", you can get mugged or beaten up anywhere at any time of day or night). I think 'ethnic identity' gang violence in NY gets more media attention, but there are random bad kids just hanging on the streets in other world cities that are just looking to have some fun at your expense. It happened to a lot of people I know.

All of this is just my opinion anyway. Go to London, have a great time, and stay aware. And don't leave valuables in hotels or hostels, watch your drink (they have rufi over there too) and don't drink too much. Bad things happen to people who drop their guard, especially Americans who go over there and think "London is one of the safest cities in the WORLD."

Yes there are safe areas of London. There are very few bad areas at all.
I don't think a city that has a murder rate 4 times lower then NYC cannot have nice areas.

[birdinmigration]

(shrug)

Believe what you want.

In addition to random chav street crime you have some other types of international crime that is, for the expat (which is what the OP would be), at the least annoying, and at the most a hazard.

For instance, the Russian dissident Litvinenko, was assassinated in 2006 by 'contacts' whose idea of a British tea includes sprinkling radioactive isotopes in their chum's Earl Grey. This thoroughly antisocial act caused not only the horrible death of Mr. Litvinenko, but the quarantining of sections of the most posh and prestigious addresses in London, and the poisoning of many other people who just happened to be around, including the victim's family. The site of the crime, it is believed, was the Millennium Hotel (inevitably getting the nickname 'Polonium Hotel' as the nuke was Polonium 210) on Grosvenor Sq. in Mayfair. Anyone familiar with London at all will know that the American Embassy is on Grosvenor Sq., on a 90 degree angle about 100 meters from the Polonium Hotel, and the inconvenience of all this, plus the health risks should be realized. But I lived to tell about it, and I spent a couple of years in the district and went to the bar at the Millennium Hotel, it's quite nice.

Another feature of the international city of London is the dismaying rise in honor killings and honor maimings. Certain ethnicities practice this heinous "family revenge" custom, and of course it is extralegal, sub rosa, and very hush hush. Some women of certain sects and religions don't even exist on standard population counts. How will this effect you, the expat? Probably not at all, except if you live in certain districts populated by people who keep these customs from their native countries. Many nights I'd look out the window and see people dragged down the sidewalk, chased around cars, screaming in, um, another language (I won't say which). Oh, and of course you care about it if human rights of women mean anything to you. You call the police of course, but it's all over before they get there.

[cyrusjul]

Originally Posted by nycistheplace2

Yes there are safe areas of London. There are very few bad areas at all.
I don't think a city that has a murder rate 4 times lower then NYC cannot have nice areas.

Even though NYC crime is higher than London, most of it tend to be gang related or people that know each other. But usually in bad poor neighborhoods. There seems to be more random street assaults on random people in London. My cousin was living there for about five years and he was in a decent area of London too and he was attack by some Chavs. These are kids that just wonder the streets to cause trouble. He said he know others who were unfortunately assaulted too. London doesn't seem to have lots of killings, but it does seems to have lots of random assaults. And I believe they have more knife assaults than NYC too.

[eskimoblueday]

I think that climate preference between NYC and London really depends on the personal taste. I live in NYC for a year now, been to London (in summer and winter), and spent over two years in Denmark with climate generally similar to UK. And god, how I miss it - especially those relatively cold summers. 35°C/95°F with high humidity in NYC is no way fun. Not to mention the subway platforms, being plain hell for 3-4 months a year. Other than that, I find NYC incredibly dirty and the feeling is emphasized by the heat.

[Biskit]

NYC is definitely more fast paced, alive, energetic and aesthetically impressive than London. However, that being said, I think if you kept only the best neighborhoods in NYC that people actually liked to hang out in, took out lots of the congestion and crowds, made it cleaner, took out the grid, took out the jungle of skyscrapers, made it more charmingly historic, and increased the quality and price of almost everything, you'd have London.

For me, I'd like to live my 20s and 30s in NYC and 40's and 50's in London, I think it just suits those age ranges perfectly. But yeah, besides NY, I could only see myself living in London.

[LMR69]

Ok i'm not an american and not english just so you know.
I go more than twice to each nyc and london a year! Due to work i stay for about a month in each visit which gives about 4 months 2 in each so basically I don't do touristic stuff so i tend to live the life of the city do groceries, work, work out, shop, hang out you name it.
I have friends who study and work in both central london and in NY so i can propably give you a good perspective from diffrent point of views, here it goes:
1-Culture: even though they're both cosmopolitan cities i think NY is more american than london is english. And lately it seems like london is kinda NY wanna-be! lol bias? Maybe! But i'm telling you my experience
2-People: NY-ers are nicer than people are in london, pushy??yes... mean??NO! While in london they're cold and arrogant PERIOD! NY are more interactive they smile more often than they do in london, greet you more often.
3-Lifestyle: you'll deffinetly have a more variety of options in NY than you ever will in london.
NY has a vibe i've seen in NO WHERE! I always got something to do ALL the time!
4-Costs: while NY tends to tax EVERYTHING You do, as a non EU citizen i get tax offs in London in shops. So shopping wise i tend to save what i got & spend it in London. Never the less that doesnt stop me from doing a very decent shopping in NY it deffinetly has better venues.
But let me demonstrate an example If i give you 1$ and 1pound you'll get to buy better stuff with that $ than you'll with a pound! I'm not sayin its more valueble it's just what you can get with a $.
5-Transportation: londoners tend to owe cars more than new yorkers do, transportation is WAY easier in NY than it is in london. Oh and taxis in NY are alot cheaper, but crazier
6-Weather: NY gets to be too humid in the summer it doesnt in london, on the other hand its always sunnier in NY than it is in rainy london.
7-Safety: NY is WAY safer! I REALLY find some streets of london TOO SHADY and suspicious I have experienced some hassle in london while I havent had any in NY. I can walk in a slightly dark street in NY while it freaks me a little in london.
8-Work: it's more consuming in NY they'll eat you alive they're NOT laid back people! And you'll deffinetly find a harder time finding a job in NY so it's not that secure if you got released from your job oh boy you're dead!
9-Cleanness: deffinetly london!!!
10-Single life: while NY people are more flirtatious, they're not that committed to relationships, it's a very fast track city but they will deffinetly not settle down as quick and will want you to slow down, yet again it's fast enough to get somebody else in just a snap!
11-"getting-out-of-the-city": take about 2.5 hours train from london and in you're in paris isa perfect getaway from london diffrent culture, people, currency, etc. Take a short flight and you're in italy, spain you name it. London is more reacheful to more international destinations.You can actually feel you travelled. While in NY it's diffrent you can be in boston or canada in same amount of time but you're still in the same culture.

But when it comes to chose 1 of them call me bias but it's absloutly NY HANDS DOWN. I have friends who moved from london to NY and they don't miss it much, I can feel myself at home while in NY i guess i can melt in and it's just so scary how it feels like home more thannmy actual hometown I get the blues when i leave NY. And I'm seriously considering on moving there in the future *sigh*.

Don't get me wrong london is a great city not that it's a bad place it's just that NY is overwhelming better!!

I ♥ NY

[Rahul108]

I live in London , was born in England. Have visited NY a number of times and plan to soon once more.

Some things not mentioned about London are the historic hotels such as The Savoy , The Dorchester , Claridges , The Connaught for example , such a wide selection of luxury hotels , over 40 five star hotels. Many very old with allot of history often frequented by royalty from all over the world with prices to match. If i had to choose it would be London hotels.

Mens shopping - For suits and shoes shirts etc - Saville Row and Jermyn St - the best in the world - tailors and bespoke shoemakers - famous worldwide for serving royalty and politicians and Americans. Men must visit both streets for sure - thats my style of dress , better than what i found at NY , Paul stuart was one i liked in NY.

Great boarding schools - Eton , Harrow , Dulwich , Westminster , St Pauls , Charterhouse - for me better than anything NY has to offer such as Dalton ,Collegiate and Trinity - if you have children something to think about , only Andover and Exeter can compare for me.

World class universities - UCL and Imperial. Also Kings College London , SOAS - all extremely diverse , huge mix of ethnicities. UCL and Imperial are up there in the top 5 in some rankings , two great uni's.

Whisky bars - there are a number of incredible whisky bars.

Soccer - some of the best teams in the world are in London - Arsenal FC and Chelsea FC. Tottenham Hotspur and Fulham are also in London. All four play in the premier league and european competitions. If you are a fan of soccer there is a great selection of world class teams to see. The New York Red Bulls dont do it for me.

Women - better in NY. People - better in NY.

Tennis - Wimbeldon. It is a beautifull village in Great London. The tennis tournament is played here each year. Some consider it the best tournament in the world , others prefer Flushing Meadows in New York.

Diversity - Forty per cent of London's population is foreign born, only slightly more than New York's 36%. But unlike Manhattan, even the prosperous areas of inner London are ethnically mixed. Wealth is fairly equally distributed among all ethnic groups , far more than NY. There are many Asian , Indian , Black , Arab billionaires and many multi millionaires who have been in London for a number of generations. After British the largest ethnic minority is Indian with over 500,000 in London alone and one of the most affluent groups in the UK - the richest man in the UK and Europe is an Indian - Lakshmi Mittal. Nigerian is another well represented affluent group in London , London has a substantial black population of 1 million plus. UK is easily the most diverse place in Europe - the most tolerant where racism is not tolerated at home nor at work - way better than mainland Europe in this department.

Mixed relationships and marriages are very common - now between all sorts of combinations.

Proximity to Europe - Amsterdam , Barcelona , Paris , Madrid , Lisbon , Edinburgh - all cities i visit regularly as they are so close.

Negatives - Crime - crime is an issue - gangs , gun crime , knife crime , muggings due to the inequalities overall - London has become a city for the super rich , and the poor have been forgotten somewhat. There are several "ghettos" of white "chavs" as mentioned , various black and asian communities also have significant "ghettos" or council estates. Here the schools are dreadfull , the housing horrible , and people do resort to crime and many end up in prison.

For me the crime is far worse in London than NY - walking , using the tube , shopping , even the rich are targetted and mugged , driving - road rage, Gun crime increases each year , Stabbings increase , maybe murders are lower than NY. I know many people who have been mugged , robbed in broad daylight , family members - my mother , my aunt. So do take care in London - better being in a couple , than alone. Unfortunately the police are not that good and are institutionally racist - this is well documented and the government is trying to stop this.

I want to live in NY some day , its near to Toronto and Montreal , always have a good time in those two , family over there.

[tuberose]

Originally Posted by birdinmigration

I lived in a posh area a couple blocks from Hyde Park and more than a few times I cleaned the remains of free-basing, acid-dropping, or "enjoying safesex" from my basement steps. There was a brothel across the street well-known to Scotland Yard, so the police just laughed at me.

This happened to me as well. I was staying in a very nice area one block from Hyde Park and I did a lot of walking. Was frequently harassed by curb crawlers. Very bad experience on one of those occasions - the guy started screaming abuse at me when I wouldn't respond and wouldn't he leave me alone.
He followed me in his black Mercedes for at least 30 mins. I detoured and went to the local police station. They laughed at me when I went in to say I was being followed and harassed.