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Reducing the benefits of the "unborn" has been steadily practiced since the 70's. Slowly but surely deteriorating our overall power. We pay roughly 8.35% into the pension for your first 10 years! That's right off the top! We get used to our take home numbers and forget all about it. However, imagine getting a 8.35% raise! After 10 years it changes to 3%. Then after 20 you have the right to stop your payments. You CAN keep paying though, this is somehow calculated into your pension numbers, increasing your pension.
We also pay our 20 year health plan. This is to provide you with health coverage when you retire. When you look at the big picture, we do a lot for what we get. I'm all over the place here...
Lemme give you an example. By agreeing to a 5 year and now a 5 and 1/2 year pay scale, we have lessened the earning power of the men at top pay. Roughly, from 2000 to August 2011 the starting pay has remained BASICALLY $30, 000. Outrageous!! Think about this . This allows management to free up capital and get more guys on the job. Surely they will reach top pay BUT in the meantime we can toss these guys around on different shifts and effectively void a lot of overtime for senior men. They obviously have new hires timed with the expected attrition rate.
Much of this was forced on the unions through a break in a MLC back in the 70's. The PBA got the teir packages going when they broke from the rest of the unions to score their own deal. The Taylor Law forced it on the rest through uniformed parity. That MLC was actually headed by one of our old Sanitation union presidents...
Giving up anything is not a good idea....and it's amazing just how many guys on the job would LOVE to sell out everybody beneath them. Before we got the inital 17% raise back in 07, I think??, guys were praying for 3, 3, 3....or maybe even one zero in there. IDIOTS!! They would gladly give up Teir 4 if it meant ANYTHING for them.
I was unsure before but now I'm all but certain that we will see layoffs. It's unfourtunate and probably could have been avoided by not hiring people so wrecklessly. I do not see people retiring in this economic climate. They are mostly comfortable, although I agree that a lot of us our hurting. After the snow season is over we will see layoffs anywhere from 600-1200. So a good guess is about 800. This is from the horses mouth guys. For all the uniformed forces.
If your not on yet and your list number is over 2000 I wouldn't even think about it anymore. The list lasts 4 years. If they lay off 1000 guys for a year....then start bringing them back a bit at a time......And there is not enough of an attrition rate to hire more.....it could easily pass the 4 years. The city could extend the list but I just don't see the point in mulling over it. Put your mind at ease and let it go for now.
Otherwise I hope nothing this atrocious happens. I wish everybody good luck.
I wonder if they do layoff people if they will go under headcount. Because if they laid off 600-1000 guys then that will be too much if they are supposedly trying to maintain headcount.
Well, at least for the new guys, with the amount of deductions you are getting in the check, unemployment seems about equal to the paycheck, but what about probation?
If you are laid off for 6 months, does the probation get extended 6 more months?
Well, at least for the new guys, with the amount of deductions you are getting in the check, unemployment seems about equal to the paycheck, but what about probation?
If you are laid off for 6 months, does the probation get extended 6 more months?
Not only that but you don't have the expenses of commuting to and from work,meals,etc. You can get a job off the books with the hours that work best for you.
Well, at least for the new guys, with the amount of deductions you are getting in the check, unemployment seems about equal to the paycheck, but what about probation?
If you are laid off for 6 months, does the probation get extended 6 more months?
according to a supervisor who was a part of previous layoffs, any probation time stops, and it resumes when you come back...so if you have 6 months left on probation if/when there are layoffs, it resumes when they bring you back...only time on the job counts towards probation
Reducing the benefits of the "unborn" has been steadily practiced since the 70's. Slowly but surely deteriorating our overall power. We pay roughly 8.35% into the pension for your first 10 years! That's right off the top! We get used to our take home numbers and forget all about it. However, imagine getting a 8.35% raise! After 10 years it changes to 3%. Then after 20 you have the right to stop your payments. You CAN keep paying though, this is somehow calculated into your pension numbers, increasing your pension.
We also pay our 20 year health plan. This is to provide you with health coverage when you retire. When you look at the big picture, we do a lot for what we get. I'm all over the place here...
Lemme give you an example. By agreeing to a 5 year and now a 5 and 1/2 year pay scale, we have lessened the earning power of the men at top pay. Roughly, from 2000 to August 2011 the starting pay has remained BASICALLY $30, 000. Outrageous!! Think about this . This allows management to free up capital and get more guys on the job. Surely they will reach top pay BUT in the meantime we can toss these guys around on different shifts and effectively void a lot of overtime for senior men. They obviously have new hires timed with the expected attrition rate.
Much of this was forced on the unions through a break in a MLC back in the 70's. The PBA got the teir packages going when they broke from the rest of the unions to score their own deal. The Taylor Law forced it on the rest through uniformed parity. That MLC was actually headed by one of our old Sanitation union presidents...
Giving up anything is not a good idea....and it's amazing just how many guys on the job would LOVE to sell out everybody beneath them. Before we got the inital 17% raise back in 07, I think??, guys were praying for 3, 3, 3....or maybe even one zero in there. IDIOTS!! They would gladly give up Teir 4 if it meant ANYTHING for them.
I was unsure before but now I'm all but certain that we will see layoffs. It's unfourtunate and probably could have been avoided by not hiring people so wrecklessly. I do not see people retiring in this economic climate. They are mostly comfortable, although I agree that a lot of us our hurting. After the snow season is over we will see layoffs anywhere from 600-1200. So a good guess is about 800. This is from the horses mouth guys. For all the uniformed forces.
If your not on yet and your list number is over 2000 I wouldn't even think about it anymore. The list lasts 4 years. If they lay off 1000 guys for a year....then start bringing them back a bit at a time......And there is not enough of an attrition rate to hire more.....it could easily pass the 4 years. The city could extend the list but I just don't see the point in mulling over it. Put your mind at ease and let it go for now.
Otherwise I hope nothing this atrocious happens. I wish everybody good luck.
thanks again for dropping some serious knowledge in this thread...quick question though:
"I was unsure before but now I'm all but certain that we will see layoffs. It's unfourtunate and probably could have been avoided by not hiring people so wrecklessly. I do not see people retiring in this economic climate. They are mostly comfortable, although I agree that a lot of us our hurting. After the snow season is over we will see layoffs anywhere from 600-1200. So a good guess is about 800. This is from the horses mouth guys. For all the uniformed forces."
when you say "this is from the horses mouth guys", who exactly are you referring to? I mean it's pretty similar to what everyone's been saying around the job, but I'm just curious
800 is alot of guys they said were over like 500-700 i hear--- take in retirement and all the other stuff I know 6 guys from my garage are gone in the upcoming months plus more by 2010 sooo 800 seems harsh esp. to keep head count so i was thinking they might just lay off the last two classes july and aug.. maybe even the 3rd class nov 07... thats what i think...
when you say "this is from the horses mouth guys", who exactly are you referring to? I mean it's pretty similar to what everyone's been saying around the job, but I'm just curious[/quote]
I know people at the Union. I was told that was the possible range. Truth is, THEY ARE NOT SURE! This all depends upon the economy, Bloomberg has a very conservative perspective towards money. He is assuming the worst and is probably right in doing so. Some economists think we will not see the worst of this economy until at least the end of 2010. Even at that the upswing is expected to be quite long. Maybe Years!! I know this sounds horrific but we are in a serious financial EFUP.
I wouldn't count on guys retiring until you are waving goodbye to their tailpipe goin' down the street. I've even seen guys return within a year or so. They want to go but for many they NEVER planned properly. Plus you become indoctrinated on this job, in many ways it becomes you and you become it. You want to leave when they are stopping you but you don't when they open the door!! Guys figure....eeehh I could do another year or two.....then it turns into 4 or 5...I'll stay 25! Guys talk a lot of **** on this job.
I think the layoffs will happen but I have no crystal ball. The Union told me so and you could read it in the papers and other union websites. They are claiming possibly even 1,000 for both cops and firemen. Teachers are on the block.....It sucks. As far as the headcount being maintained....I do not think anybody is ssoooo worried about that. They would pay a few charts to drop all that salary and benefits, I think.
The writing is on the wall. Just being honest here, I don't wish this on anybody.
thanks again for dropping some serious knowledge in this thread...quick question though:
"I was unsure before but now I'm all but certain that we will see layoffs. It's unfourtunate and probably could have been avoided by not hiring people so wrecklessly. I do not see people retiring in this economic climate. They are mostly comfortable, although I agree that a lot of us our hurting. After the snow season is over we will see layoffs anywhere from 600-1200. So a good guess is about 800. This is from the horses mouth guys. For all the uniformed forces."
when you say "this is from the horses mouth guys", who exactly are you referring to? I mean it's pretty similar to what everyone's been saying around the job, but I'm just curious
When he said horses mouth he means he heard it from a chief. That is where I heard the same number from. When I asked the union they dont give any figures. The reason why they get that number is that is the number of people who need to be layoffed to make the new budget. That being said, I doubt(and hope) that they will layoff that many. The way these things work is that whatever number management wants to layoff the union usually gets them to do half that number. So since management wants to layoff 600 to 1200, they will probably layoff 300 to 600. Which isnt good but still a lot better then 1200. I dont know how it is in other garages but in mine people are planning on retiring and will lose about 5 percent of my garage by 2010. So yes people are retiring but still not enough.
my last four checks including this week base salary---626.78---638.41---648.37---648.37....so i guess our checks will be 648.37 till one year in july....
The salary is correct. We now make the same as the guys that were hired in late '07 that still haven't reached the next raise.
I know people at the Union. I was told that was the possible range. Truth is, THEY ARE NOT SURE! This all depends upon the economy, Bloomberg has a very conservative perspective towards money. He is assuming the worst and is probably right in doing so. Some economists think we will not see the worst of this economy until at least the end of 2010. Even at that the upswing is expected to be quite long. Maybe Years!! I know this sounds horrific but we are in a serious financial EFUP.
I wouldn't count on guys retiring until you are waving goodbye to their tailpipe goin' down the street. I've even seen guys return within a year or so. They want to go but for many they NEVER planned properly. Plus you become indoctrinated on this job, in many ways it becomes you and you become it. You want to leave when they are stopping you but you don't when they open the door!! Guys figure....eeehh I could do another year or two.....then it turns into 4 or 5...I'll stay 25! Guys talk a lot of **** on this job.
I think the layoffs will happen but I have no crystal ball. The Union told me so and you could read it in the papers and other union websites. They are claiming possibly even 1,000 for both cops and firemen. Teachers are on the block.....It sucks. As far as the headcount being maintained....I do not think anybody is ssoooo worried about that. They would pay a few charts to drop all that salary and benefits, I think.
The writing is on the wall. Just being honest here, I don't wish this on anybody.
This isnt good.
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. This allows management to free up capital and get more guys on the job. Surely they will reach top pay BUT in the meantime we can toss these guys around on different shifts and effectively void a lot of overtime for senior men. They obviously have new hires timed with the expected attrition rate. 
They would gladly give up Teir 4 if it meant ANYTHING for them. 
mulling over it. Put your mind at ease and let it go for now. 
Just being honest here, I don't wish this on anybody.
