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Old 03-30-2014, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Florida
943 posts, read 1,198,943 times
Reputation: 368

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I have recently been seeing more threads popping up from the Upper Middle Class talking about how they can't afford the live the "Manhattan Highlife / Manhattan Dream" because they can't buy a big house, in a nice district or neighborhood right out, and they have to get a mortgage for a place whilst people in France can purchase a castle for the same if not more less than a luxury apartment or brownstone.

People believe that because they have obtained, in what would be considered, the "American Dream" in 99.9% of the country that they're entitled to a best quality of life possible. They believe that they shouldn't "belittle" themselves to standard mundane life of being a mortgage holder. When they realize that they will be unable to achieve the highest quality lifestyle available in New York City, they become resentful as they believe that the work they've put into the system (business/academia/government) and into society is worthless, and that their achievements aren't anything special.

I will give you an honest example: Toddler A has an ice cream cone. Toddler B comes along and gets an ice cream cone with a piece of chocolate in it. Toddler A throws his ice cream and throws a tantrum because he didn't get the piece of chocolate.

I find this almost pathetic. If you've been given a nice high-income, secured employment, you should be grateful for what others do not have. You have been given a good hand in the game of Blackjack, and you should be grateful for it.

Another topic I am going to touch on is: The Jealousy of the Upper Middle Class in regards to the Upper Class.

As a lot of you may know from my previous threads, I have come into a large amount of wealth recently and I am beginning to start my life and have been dealing with numerous professionals from all classes, and one classification of people based on income seems to exhibit very jealous tendencies. That class is not the working class, it is not the lower or middle class. It is the Upper Middle Class.

I have been speaking to a professional in relation to my establishing my life, and for the past fortnight the markets (Bitcoin) have been doing terribly, dropping from 710 to 465 dollars and this person said, I am pretty sure it just slipped out, "Maybe if you had attended an Ivy League college like the rest of us, you would have gotten a real job and earned your way through actual work." I was literally gobsmacked. This is coming from a guy earning $150,000 per year with a Princeton education.

Ever since then, I have been noticing growing tensions between me and people from this income/education group, and it's been concerning me, as I can tell when anger-from-jealousy arrises. Each anger has it's main ingredient and it seems jealousy is a primary one in this income group. If they're not whining about how the poor are leaching off the welfare system, they're whining about how the Upper Class are "lazy, do-nothings bleeding off the work of the Upper Middle Class." I find this repugnant and distasteful. They play the "victim card" because they genuinely believe they have been hard done by, when really, in theory and practice, they have some of the best positions in this country.

//EndRant.txt.
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:44 PM
 
Location: brooklyn, new york, USA
898 posts, read 1,219,436 times
Reputation: 1310
there are no sure bets for anything and that includes attending a certain institution or shmoozing with certain company. people can help or betray you. or you can become the next michael j. fox. disabled at age 31 regardless of what choices you made. or you can just get cancer and die. or you can become super wealthy with hard work. people speak as if life is a math formula. it's a bit of everything. choice, talent, genetics, etc. i never understood jealousy. obviously you have more than i do and i have more than joe shmo does. so what? it's like being a 5 year old kid indeed. all that matters is using our time for our own happiness while we are on earth. everything will disappear in our lives within the next 80 or so years. all of us on this message board will be gone. that's not an if. no one will give us medals for beating out someone else in net worth value or whatever people valued. some people play up their class while others don't. i have not met wealthy people outside of a few, and while they were cheap and superficial (they flaunted their wealth to me as if i should admire that, and yes i made them very upset when i told them i do not share their values - and what's wrong with that? they should actually want to be my friend because of the fact that i wasn't jealous or envied them), i know some of them are down to earth and understand that we have a limited time here on earth we should appreciate that much more.

i am one of those who believes that 99.9% of the time in life, you get what you deserve. yes luck (poor medical health or mishap, or winning the lotto, etc.) helps or hurts but ultimately your talent hard work etc. will give you what you deserve. i don't see race or being born into a rich family as something that helps or hurts you beyond a small point. people who play the "victim card" are uninformed and speak out of emotion. if they understood and accepted the way the world works, they would back down. the sane ones anyway.
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:05 PM
 
5,126 posts, read 4,974,054 times
Reputation: 4974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy Guy View Post
there are no sure bets for anything and that includes attending a certain institution or shmoozing with certain company. people can help or betray you. or you can become the next michael j. fox. disabled at age 31 regardless of what choices you made. or you can just get cancer and die. or you can become super wealthy with hard work. people speak as if life is a math formula. it's a bit of everything. choice, talent, genetics, etc. i never understood jealousy. obviously you have more than i do and i have more than joe shmo does. so what? it's like being a 5 year old kid indeed. all that matters is using our time for our own happiness while we are on earth. everything will disappear in our lives within the next 80 or so years. all of us on this message board will be gone. that's not an if. no one will give us medals for beating out someone else in net worth value or whatever people valued. some people play up their class while others don't. i have not met wealthy people outside of a few, and while they were cheap and superficial (they flaunted their wealth to me as if i should admire that, and yes i made them very upset when i told them i do not share their values - and what's wrong with that? they should actually want to be my friend because of the fact that i wasn't jealous or envied them), i know some of them are down to earth and understand that we have a limited time here on earth we should appreciate that much more.

i am one of those who believes that 99.9% of the time in life, you get what you deserve. yes luck (poor medical health or mishap, or winning the lotto, etc.) helps or hurts but ultimately your talent hard work etc. will give you what you deserve. i don't see race or being born into a rich family as something that helps or hurts you beyond a small point. people who play the "victim card" are uninformed and speak out of emotion. if they understood and accepted the way the world works, they would back down. the sane ones anyway.


i am often impressed by those chinese ladies who walk all over nyc to retrieve recyclable bottles/cans and pile them on the cart that often is taller than them and clearly reveals their identities to the pass byers. they are truly down to earth with 0 vanity in their mind regarding who they are and what they do.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:05 AM
 
1,092 posts, read 1,557,730 times
Reputation: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous725 View Post
I have recently been seeing more threads popping up from the Upper Middle Class talking about how they can't afford the live the "Manhattan Highlife / Manhattan Dream" because they can't buy a big house, in a nice district or neighborhood right out, and they have to get a mortgage for a place whilst people in France can purchase a castle for the same if not more less than a luxury apartment or brownstone.

People believe that because they have obtained, in what would be considered, the "American Dream" in 99.9% of the country that they're entitled to a best quality of life possible. They believe that they shouldn't "belittle" themselves to standard mundane life of being a mortgage holder. When they realize that they will be unable to achieve the highest quality lifestyle available in New York City, they become resentful as they believe that the work they've put into the system (business/academia/government) and into society is worthless, and that their achievements aren't anything special.

I will give you an honest example: Toddler A has an ice cream cone. Toddler B comes along and gets an ice cream cone with a piece of chocolate in it. Toddler A throws his ice cream and throws a tantrum because he didn't get the piece of chocolate.

I find this almost pathetic. If you've been given a nice high-income, secured employment, you should be grateful for what others do not have. You have been given a good hand in the game of Blackjack, and you should be grateful for it.

Another topic I am going to touch on is: The Jealousy of the Upper Middle Class in regards to the Upper Class.

As a lot of you may know from my previous threads, I have come into a large amount of wealth recently and I am beginning to start my life and have been dealing with numerous professionals from all classes, and one classification of people based on income seems to exhibit very jealous tendencies. That class is not the working class, it is not the lower or middle class. It is the Upper Middle Class.

I have been speaking to a professional in relation to my establishing my life, and for the past fortnight the markets (Bitcoin) have been doing terribly, dropping from 710 to 465 dollars and this person said, I am pretty sure it just slipped out, "Maybe if you had attended an Ivy League college like the rest of us, you would have gotten a real job and earned your way through actual work." I was literally gobsmacked. This is coming from a guy earning $150,000 per year with a Princeton education.

Ever since then, I have been noticing growing tensions between me and people from this income/education group, and it's been concerning me, as I can tell when anger-from-jealousy arrises. Each anger has it's main ingredient and it seems jealousy is a primary one in this income group. If they're not whining about how the poor are leaching off the welfare system, they're whining about how the Upper Class are "lazy, do-nothings bleeding off the work of the Upper Middle Class." I find this repugnant and distasteful. They play the "victim card" because they genuinely believe they have been hard done by, when really, in theory and practice, they have some of the best positions in this country.

//EndRant.txt.
Words can not describe the crap I just read lol

Fun facts which kinda repudiates I'd say 99% of your argument:
  • 150K is considered middle class in NYC like really did I just type that
  • Entire Middle Class bracket (including upper middle) have experienced flat wages last 6-7+ years
  • Wages have actually DECREASED overall except for 1%
  • Upper Class have not only rebounded, but are "experiencing best profits had in years"

You just got served don't rant anymore lololol

If anything he was made about your ignorance and probably lashed out over your "privileged" nonchalant behavior.
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:38 AM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,149,646 times
Reputation: 3814
Im either upper low class, or low middle class; and although I try to understand investing, its just not easy for me. Perhaps I missed the boat in Bitcoin as well.

Since you made the Bitcoin investment though, I have a question for you, if you dont mind, please:

How does virtual currency work? Can you actually spend it, or is it more like a fad - like Pet Rocks or something?

Btw, and please bare in mind my station in life, but aren't investments supposed to be for the long haul, and you shouldnt crap your pants because they plunge into the toilet bowl every now & then?

You might ask, given my station in life, why would I care since Im basicly pretty poor, and shouldnt be investing, as I would probably have just as good of a chance with a slot machine in AC to increase my meager savings, and a lot more fun. Well, I have a little annuity I play with, so although Im not a big investor, I try to scrape some pennies together and see what my choices bring.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:37 AM
 
Location: New Jersey!!!!
19,054 posts, read 13,973,458 times
Reputation: 21534
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
Im either upper low class, or low middle class; and although I try to understand investing, its just not easy for me. Perhaps I missed the boat in Bitcoin as well.

Since you made the Bitcoin investment though, I have a question for you, if you dont mind, please:

How does virtual currency work? Can you actually spend it, or is it more like a fad - like Pet Rocks or something?

Btw, and please bare in mind my station in life, but aren't investments supposed to be for the long haul, and you shouldnt crap your pants because they plunge into the toilet bowl every now & then?

You might ask, given my station in life, why would I care since Im basicly pretty poor, and shouldnt be investing, as I would probably have just as good of a chance with a slot machine in AC to increase my meager savings, and a lot more fun. Well, I have a little annuity I play with, so although Im not a big investor, I try to scrape some pennies together and see what my choices bring.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Stop knocking yourself. If you're saving, you are already way ahead of many people, even those who make decent money. Keep saving. It will definitely pay off.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Queens, NYC
420 posts, read 823,864 times
Reputation: 353
Completely agree with OP. Being upper middle class is provides a safe, stable, comfortable way of living. However, people always think they are better than what they are. Extremely annoying when people think they should be accustomed to the upper class "good life" because they are financially secure and refuse to make any lifestyle concessions to be in Manhattan. People every day are hustling on these streets to get by, whether it's through some sales pitch, creating art, selling bootlegged DVDs, working in an investment bank, or recycling bottles from the street, and yet people still complain how they deserve better because they are upper middle class...if you want the upper class life, work to get it, not complain about it!
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
25,368 posts, read 37,089,626 times
Reputation: 12769
My Mantra:

If anyone is going to spout on and on about "The Middle Class" he must define what level of wealth and income he is talking about, otherwise he is merely spouting platitudinous twaddle. And the phrase "middle class" gets more platitudinous twaddle spouted about it than perhaps any other.


Quote:

i don't see race or being born into a rich family as something that
helps or hurts you beyond a small point.
Have you ever heard of Malcolm Forbes? He's a man who without his father's money would not be qualified to clean toilets.
I think Elizabeth II might fall into the same category.
Check out the status of "The Cousins," the 22 Fourth generation heirs of the immense Rockefeller fortune...if they want governorships, the BUY governorships.

In a society where money defines all values saying that inheritance of immense wealth "helps only to a small point" is as ostrich-like as thinking can get.

Last edited by Kefir King; 03-31-2014 at 07:12 AM..
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:24 AM
 
Location: New Jersey!!!!
19,054 posts, read 13,973,458 times
Reputation: 21534
I hate to admit it, but I have to agree with Kefir here. Being born into money is nearly a 100% indicator of either remaining rich or increasing in wealth. Very few people born into wealth see their position in life downgraded during their stay on this planet. The stats don't lie.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:36 AM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,564,763 times
Reputation: 15300
OP - you completely missed the chief grievance between the upper middle class (say 350-500K in Manhattan?) and the upper class. Its this - the UMC are paying taxes on ordinary income (a 39.6% top marginal rate from Fed.) whereas the upper class are chiefly paying it on unearned income at a much lower rate - say 15-20%.
Of course the UMC are pissed - as the lower earners beat on politicians to increase taxes on the rich - its the UMC earning ordinary income (as salaries) that effectively become the target while the upper class get off scott-free. It takes a pretty sanguine outlook to say I'm ok with paying more in taxes when those receiving more yearly income are aren't. DeBlasio's recently derailed no.1 plan to "tax the rich" would have not the UMC, not the upper class.
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