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The problem with these stories is that they are second hand or third hand information at best. For all we know these people could have been busted for fraud. Perhaps they didn't tell you the full story (friends and relatives can lie to people they are close to). Obviously they are leaving out major parts of whatever really happened.
True, true. All of their stories were similar though, but then again...doesn't mean they didn't leave out some things.
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Also I feel that you are misrepresenting things. You're representing HRA's workfare program as the program that most welfare recipients are on. Most of HRA's clients would be on food stamps or medicaid and many of them work part time. If someone just got fired from their jobs, they would apply for UNEMPLOYMENT (not HRA cash assistance) and from HRA the most they would get is food stamps.
I'm only discussing the CASH part of it. Everyone thinks that people collecting benefits are home eating bonbons watching talk shows. This isn't true. If you're collecting CASH, then you are required to attend some sort of "work activities" and are most definitely working for it by cleaning the streets or whatever NYC HRA wants you to do.
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There is absolutely no way the average person on food stamps or medicaid is required to pay back money.
No, they don't have to. The only exception is a law put in place by the Giuliani administration during the early days of workfare where the fathers of children born on medicaid are forced to pay back half of the baby's expenses. They don't tell the mothers this though and it's rarely known. It's only a law specifically for NYC HRA. I don't think other jurisdictions in the state do this.
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Now if a cash poor person has to go into a nursing home, yes medicaid can go after their property/assets. But generally speaking the vast majority of HRA clients, who have been on HRA programs DO NOT have to pay back any money whatsoever even if they get a job or come into money.
We'll agree that the "vast majority" won't have to, because many will probably never make past a certain amount where the city CAN go after them, but there is a LAW on NYC's books that if they win the lottery or a lawsuit the city can and WILL recoup what they got over the years.
Another thing the city will do is put a lien on your property if you own a home.
True, true. All of their stories were similar though, but then again...doesn't mean they didn't leave out some things.
I'm only discussing the CASH part of it. Everyone thinks that people collecting benefits are home eating bonbons watching talk shows. This isn't true. If you're collecting CASH, then you are required to attend some sort of "work activities" and are most definitely working for it by cleaning the streets or whatever NYC HRA wants you to do.
No, they don't have to. The only exception is a law put in place by the Giuliani administration during the early days of workfare where the fathers of children born on medicaid are forced to pay back half of the baby's expenses. They don't tell the mothers this though and it's rarely known. It's only a law specifically for NYC HRA. I don't think other jurisdictions in the state do this.
We'll agree that the "vast majority" won't have to, because many will probably never make past a certain amount where the city CAN go after them, but there is a LAW on NYC's books that if they win the lottery or a lawsuit the city can and WILL recoup what they got over the years.
Another thing the city will do is put a lien on your property if you own a home.
You keep referring to this law. Can you provide a link or some other sort of evidence of this law? Cite some court cases showing up where courts have uphead these alleged recoupments? Otherwise it sounds like an urban legend.
Like a lot of people who live in NYCHA swear the city is about to sell off the NYCHA buildings. Only this hasn't happened (they'd need approval from the federal government for starters and they'd have to find housing for all those people). So it doesn't happen and selling the NYCHA buildings likely won't happen.
For that matter if a welfare client became a millionaire somehow, all they have to do is move their money into non New York accounts and declare another state or country their primary residence. That way even if they maintained an apartment in NYC there is nothing NYC could do on as far as recouping money. I have serious doubts such a law exists. Please provide evidence.
You keep referring to this law. Can you provide a link or some other sort of evidence of this law? Cite some court cases showing up where courts have uphead these alleged recoupments? Otherwise it sounds like an urban legend.
No, I can't. Not right now, but it IS true. Not an urban legend and this is what I mean about how NYC HRA keeps things under wraps. No mainstream media reported how NYS had to repay $100 million dollars in foodstamps either, but it's true. Most of those benefits had to repaid back to NYC residents.
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Like a lot of people who live in NYCHA swear the city is about to sell off the NYCHA buildings. Only this hasn't happened (they'd need approval from the federal government for starters and they'd have to find housing for all those people). So it doesn't happen and selling the NYCHA buildings likely won't happen.
I don't know anything about this, except to say that the Bloomberg administration REFUSED to do repairs for apartments. In fact, they would spend millions in legal fees fighting in court WHY they shouldn't or can't.
I thought Citibank owns a couple of the buildings? Not true?
i'm the Navy Seal who killed Bin Ladin. I can't prove that, but it is true.
What reason would I have to make something like this up though?
And why is it so hard to believe?
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
You keep referring to this law. Can you provide a link or some other sort of evidence of this law? Cite some court cases showing up where courts have uphead these alleged recoupments? Otherwise it sounds like an urban legend.
The Division of Liens and Recovery Casualty Program places liens and asserts claims against the personal injury lawsuit settlements of past or present recipients of Medicaid and Cash Assistance pursuant to NYS SSL 104 and 104-b. At the time of a lawsuit settlement, law firms and insurance companies must contact the Division to obtain a final lien amount. Total settlement amount from all defendants is needed to discuss lien re-payment.
Lawsuit brought by welfare wep worker who won $10,000 and OTDA stole half his money back:
Issue: The petitioner won $10,000.00 playing the lottery on August 10, 2007. Pursuant to Social Services Law (SSL) §131-r and Tax Law § 1613-b, OTDA intercepted $5,000.00 of Mr. Carver’s lottery winnings in recoupment of public assistance (PA) benefits he received during the period from September 5, 1997, through March 4, 2000.
On April 25, 2008, Petitioner brought an Article 78 in the Kings County Supreme Court against OTDA in which he
alleged that he owed no debt to defendant since any and all PA received was “payment” for hours “worked” at minimum wage while he was assigned by the local social service district to a WEP activity. Petitioner alleged that
as a participant in the WEP program, he was assigned to work for the City of New York at Coney Island Hospital, where he sorted and delivered mail, and at the Staten Island Ferry Terminal, where he swept floors, picked up trash, and threw down salt in the winter. The petitioner also asserted that, as a WEP participant, he was required by the OTDA to work 35 hours per week and in exchange for his work, he was paid $176 every two weeks, and he also received food stamps.
Plaintiff Walter Carver appeals from an April 1, 2009 judgment of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York (Sifton, J.), dismissing his complaint for lack of standing. As a recipient of public assistance from the City of New York, Carver was required to work for the City, and was paid minimum wage, under a program funded in whole or part by the State of New York. State law requires all state public-assistance recipients to reimburse the state for the assistance they receive, if they win the lottery. Carver won the lottery. It is alleged that the State intercepted part of the prize, and paid it over to the City. Carver sued the City (and various officials and agencies), seeking to recoup the prize money as well as prospective injunctive and declaratory relief. On behalf of himself and others similarly situated, he alleged (inter alia ) violation of state and federal constitutional rights and of state and federal minimum wage laws. The United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York (Sifton, J.) dismissed for lack of standing on the ground that no action of the City defendants caused Carver's injury.
^^Not an urban legend.
Last edited by marilyn220; 09-11-2014 at 02:40 PM..
You keep referring to this law. Can you provide a link or some other sort of evidence of this law? Cite some court cases showing up where courts have uphead these alleged recoupments? Otherwise it sounds like an urban legend.
And indeed it is. Or it could be a secret scandal, you know, the poor being secretly forced to pay assistance back.
There could be some truth to this IN OTHER STATES. People living in these other states, rather than in New York, generally know about the laws and procedures in these other states.
You are wrong about people moving here, though - they are. This will become a bigger issue is my guess.
Housing-wise it already is an issue and I can understand that.
Imagine spending your time madly searching for obscure cases, which scarcely mean policy, or even custom, in any case.
You keep referring to this law. Can you provide a link or some other sort of evidence of this law? Cite some court cases showing up where courts have uphead these alleged recoupments? Otherwise it sounds like an urban legend.
Like a lot of people who live in NYCHA swear the city is about to sell off the NYCHA buildings. Only this hasn't happened (they'd need approval from the federal government for starters and they'd have to find housing for all those people). So it doesn't happen and selling the NYCHA buildings likely won't happen.
For that matter if a welfare client became a millionaire somehow, all they have to do is move their money into non New York accounts and declare another state or country their primary residence. That way even if they maintained an apartment in NYC there is nothing NYC could do on as far as recouping money. I have serious doubts such a law exists. Please provide evidence.
Long story short federal government told NYC it would no longer fund MH and that included providing any part of the vast sums needed to do the necessary repairs and upgrades to the crumbling complex. Their rationale was based in part that the place was built as temporary housing (during WWII) and as such it was time to go. It took ages between court battles and relocating of then current residents but the place no the less was emptied out and torn down.
Since the federal government no longer builds or funds strictly "low income" projects IIRC, the new Markham Gardens was supposed to be a mixed use (seniors, affordable and low income housing) scheme. Problem is few persons with any sense or at least those who know the West Brighton part of Staten Island were and or are willing to pay the kind of money being asked to live at MG. The senior housing filled fast enough and some victims of super storm Sandy who lost their homes were moved there, but still do not think the market rate portion has been a huge success.
There in a nutshell is the problem. NYCHA has plenty of complexes that are falling apart and really the kindest thing would be to tear them down and start over. However the first question then becomes where will the current residents go? The next problem is that if true to form any new housing erected on said sites is not strictly low income or even lower working class you've removed a number of housing options that NYC is in desperate need.
That is why it "won't" happen though it has all over the country, that is projects torn down and replaced by mixed income housing. As always NYC is some sort of special case with it's own needs and problems. This is mostly due to it's own progressive liberal policies and a political establishment that cannot help but meddle into every single facet of life.
The Division of Liens and Recovery Casualty Program places liens and asserts claims against the personal injury lawsuit settlements of past or present recipients of Medicaid and Cash Assistance pursuant to NYS SSL 104 and 104-b. At the time of a lawsuit settlement, law firms and insurance companies must contact the Division to obtain a final lien amount. Total settlement amount from all defendants is needed to discuss lien re-payment. HRA/DSS - Our Services - Program Integrity - Division of Liens & Recovery
In short if you get run over by a truck and medicaid pays all your medical expenses, medicaid has to be reimbursed by the insurance company that's paying you out. The reason why you have medicaid is related to the accident, and the state wants to be reimbursed. Notice that it strictly says PERSONAL INJURY lawsuits. There are many kinds of lawsuits unrelated to personal injury, and again so far there's no evidence the city can recoup lawsuits across the board. Basically, the person's lawyer would know that their medical bills are paid for by medicaid and they would be reporting this to medicaid. Only in one kind of lawsuit. Still, thank you for supplying this information.
As for the lottery, that is state money so since state money was supporting the welfare clients, it's not entirely crazy for the state to ask that this money recoup the cost. Of course the vast majority of welfare clients never win the lottery. A significant win is so rare this shouldn't be a major concern to most welfare recipients.
I never accused you of deliberately lying. I suggested you didn't have the full story from those who had to pay back their welfare money.
Any evidence that those who get money from private sources (jobs, other private sources of income, inheritances, etc) are required to pay HRA back? It seems like this happens in extremely limited cases. There's no way a significant portion of people at HRA pay HRA back once they go back to work (in part because under most circumstances, most HRA programs do not require repayment).
Since the federal government no longer builds or funds strictly "low income" projects IIRC, the new Markham Gardens was supposed to be a mixed use (seniors, affordable and low income housing) scheme. Problem is few persons with any sense or at least those who know the West Brighton part of Staten Island were and or are willing to pay the kind of money being asked to live at MG. The senior housing filled fast enough and some victims of super storm Sandy who lost their homes were moved there, but still do not think the market rate portion has been a huge success.
There in a nutshell is the problem. NYCHA has plenty of complexes that are falling apart and really the kindest thing would be to tear them down and start over. However the first question then becomes where will the current residents go? The next problem is that if true to form any new housing erected on said sites is not strictly low income or even lower working class you've removed a number of housing options that NYC is in desperate need.
That is why it "won't" happen though it has all over the country, that is projects torn down and replaced by mixed income housing. As always NYC is some sort of special case with it's own needs and problems. This is mostly due to it's own progressive liberal policies and a political establishment that cannot help but meddle into every single facet of life.
In places where housing projects have been torn down, mixed income housing has not be a success. They became new projects. Old ghettos were torn down, new ghettos were created wherever they dumped them.
New York does not give New Yorkers already on benefits one way tickets out
It should!
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Originally Posted by newurbsnyc
we should re-examine Single Room Occupancy hotels. Also Wet Houses
Find your own damn place!
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Why on earth do you think its in their best interest to house hoards of homeless when they could be making money off developing housing for the world's wealthiest people? The homeless people are useless to the city government en masse.
That's 'hordes', BTW. Homeless are useless to all governments.
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Originally Posted by newurbsnyc
I want to help the homeless.
Buy a bunk bed. Take one home.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
A conservative friend of mine who is very young had a stroke and sadly she may not be able to work again. She is going to have to be placed on SSI and in a long term care facility.
Where is her family?
As a true conservative, she should neither seek nor accept government handouts!
Last edited by bigjake54; 09-11-2014 at 09:44 PM..
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