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Hey. I'm not even sure I'd consider THOSE neighborhoods to be Italian.
People talking about "where" to go for this type community or that type community but I really think it comes down to WHEN. If you want a truly, truly Italian neighborhood, you're in the wrong century. Go back 100 years. Even 50 years.
But for real, everything is so like integrated, can you really ask for a community that is predominately one race or nationality or another?
Hey. I'm not even sure I'd consider THOSE neighborhoods to be Italian.
People talking about "where" to go for this type community or that type community but I really think it comes down to WHEN. If you want a truly, truly Italian neighborhood, you're in the wrong century. Go back 100 years. Even 50 years.
But for real, everything is so like integrated, can you really ask for a community that is predominately one race or nationality or another?
Weren't Italian-American neighborhood in NYC say 50 or 60 years more consistently Italian than the South Shore is today?
Yes, Italians were all over Staten Island including the North Shore in solid neighborhoods and or at least those that were mostly white (Irish, German, etc...), but things have changed and they have retreated pretty much to the areas near the Expressway and on the other side. In general that is pretty much how the white/European demographics is shaping up for SI as a whole.
To those looking to move to the Rock and those already there the Expressway is a dividing line they will not cross, or perhaps only to a certain point. The won't go to Saint Vincent's (or whatever it is called now) hospital because it is filled with "poor persons" and those from the projects, etc...
Even as early as the 1970's whites began to flee parts of SI for either the South Shore or New Jersey. That only picked up steam in the 1980's and 1990's. You read the obituary section of the SI Advance and you see all these names from New Jersey, Florida, North Carolina etc... all that were formerly of "New Dorp", "Todt Hill", "Emerson Hill", "West Brighton", etc.....
Back in the day, and we're talking as late as the 1980's or so you had racist incidents on Staten Island. Everything from beat downs to various forms of discrimination. Of course now that is supposedly no longer tolerated, so people pack up and move to be "around their own kind". Often it takes very little as more than two black families moving on to a street to start the ball rolling.
Same thing happened with Bayridge and Bensonhurst. As South Brooklyn changed many Italians packed up and moved to SI or elsewhere. In fact many "native" Staten Islanders (those that lived on the Rock or whose parents did before the VNB) blame many of the tensions on SI from those that crossed the Guinea Gang Plank and settled on the Rock. In turn many of the previous Italian-Americans have packed up and moved to get away from it all including the newly arrived bunch from Brooklyn.
Bobby Bk, Below 86th Street? Lower the street or Ave? How's around Pastosa? Villa Abbate bakery?
Avenue doesn't really matter. Bath Beach begins where the Dyker park/golf course ends. Everything below 86th is Bath. They have some Russians and whatnot, but the Chinese haven't come in nearly as large of numbers as they have on the other side of the tracks (literally, as the trains are on 86th st). I know a lot of Italians whose entire families still live in Bath Beach. It's not really the same in Bensonhurst. Most of the ones who remain in Bensonhurst are either very stubborn and their families relocated without them, or they're in the restaurant business, own a pork store, etc.
A lot of the Italian leftovers in Bensonhurst don't speak English. The average Italian-American is long gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
Same thing happened with Bayridge and Bensonhurst. As South Brooklyn changed many Italians packed up and moved to SI or elsewhere. In fact many "native" Staten Islanders (those that lived on the Rock or whose parents did before the VNB) blame many of the tensions on SI from those that crossed the Guinea Gang Plank and settled on the Rock. In turn many of the previous Italian-Americans have packed up and moved to get away from it all including the newly arrived bunch from Brooklyn.
Bay Ridge is still Bay Ridge, though. Sure, there's a lot more Arabs than there were 30 years ago, but every block has a pizzeria, and the average Bay Ridge resident is white and Catholic. Fort Hamilton (below 86th st) especially. You don't find many Latinos, blacks, or Middle Eastern people between Shore Road and 3rd Ave. Mostly the "Guineas", "Micks" etc.
Last time I was in Bay Ridge I saw a lot of Russians. This was south of 86 street and near Shore Road.
Must be renters in one of the apartment buildings around there. The real estate around Shore Road is very pricy, and it's usually old time natives of Southern Brooklyn who own their own homes. Irish, Norwegian, Italian, Greek, what have you.
The Neck is not only not Italian but I'm not sure if it's even majority white alone anymore. That area had the largest decrease in whites moving then any area in The Bronx which as it stand is about 10% white.
In the BX my guess would be Country Club? Morris Park but seems to be a lot of Albanians or Macedonians.
Manhattan, zero.
Queens, Howard Beach and Middle Village. Especially North of the park. Whitestone/Malba has a sizable amount but not as much as the other two.
Brooklyn, I would say Dyker Heights especially going towards 13th Ave. (Huge homes with Christmas lights)
Not sure about Bath Beach or Gravesend? Bay Ridge has some. Some old timers are in Williamsburg. Especially near Frost Ave.
SI, I want to say has the largest concentration of Italians in America.
Nassau County, Massapequa and Franklin Square have a ton of XBrooklyn and Queens folks.
A lot of Italians in lower Westchester like Yonkers, Harrison, Mamaroneck and Pelham Manor. Also Carmel and Mahopac in Putnam County.
Thanks for the detailed information. In all honesty, here in a year or so I may be moving out and plan on moving to New York. Much of the work I need is here in the city and so is much of my family. However, the main reason why I've recently been concentrating on trying to find a neighborhood in NY (Italian of course) is mainly because my family are all made up of Italian-Americans for the most part. Most of them were raised in Bensonhurst Brooklyn, and moved over to Staten Island during the cultural shift. Nonetheless, I'm still willing to find a neighborhood to move into where I can experience NY, An Italian community, and visit my family.
So now I ask this: If I were to move to NYC, what would be the most classical, Italian, and oldschool neighborhood I could find to live in? So far, I'm pretty set on either Morris Park, Howard Beach, Bay Ridge, or Staten Island.
Again, I know this is a lot to ask for, but I feel that if there's anyone that would know the most, it would be the people who live there.
Thanks for the detailed information. In all honesty, here in a year or so I may be moving out and plan on moving to New York. Much of the work I need is here in the city and so is much of my family. However, the main reason why I've recently been concentrating on trying to find a neighborhood in NY (Italian of course) is mainly because my family are all made up of Italian-Americans for the most part. Most of them were raised in Bensonhurst Brooklyn, and moved over to Staten Island during the cultural shift. Nonetheless, I'm still willing to find a neighborhood to move into where I can experience NY, An Italian community, and visit my family.
So now I ask this: If I were to move to NYC, what would be the most classical, Italian, and oldschool neighborhood I could find to live in? So far, I'm pretty set on either Morris Park, Howard Beach, Bay Ridge, or Staten Island.
Again, I know this is a lot to ask for, but I feel that if there's anyone that would know the most, it would be the people who live there.
If travel is of no worry then Staten Island would fit your needs. There has to be a reason that Staten Island has earned the moniker Staten Italy. Howard Beach is very Italian and very expensive. Old or new HB are both pricey. MP, in The Bronx I don't think is as heavily Italian. I would think Country Club in The Bronx is more Italian then MP. Last time through MP there was an Albanian/Macedonian flag on every pole in the area.
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