New addition to the family thinking of leaving NYC (New York: coops, how much)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sheesh...you sounded so drowned in "IFs"...no wonder so many ppl need psychiatric meds today.
SAH mothers are not anything new and are well time tested to be functional in maintaining good essential societal and family values; whereas career mothers emerged and expanded within the last two generations which correlate with so many societal problems including but not limited to: 1) high divorce rates and dysfunctional families; 2) ignored children and consequential developmental/behavioral problems; 3) ever increasing level of stress in daily life for most double income families; and 4) dwindling birth rates among educated women that will eventually eradicate the "educated genes pool"...please feel free to add your own...
Please note that I am not implying there should be only SAH mothers considering that it is 2015. If situation allows, ladies like ms trish could turn her man (when she finds one) into a SAH father since she prefers to be the muscle lady and bring bread and butter home. The bottom line is, parents will pay for ignoring their children one way or another and sending your child to others' care will not fully redeem you from the poor decision.
Two things-
I am describing things that may or may not happen, therefore I used if.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Now Entangled, have you done any research into where your husband might apply for jobs? Where is he likely to find a job that pays similar to what he makes now? People on CD can tell you about various cities but that won't help you if he can't get a job there. What are things that you must have in a city and things that you can do without? That might also help to narrow down the search.
I have two sisters who now live in Dallas and like it, that might be a city worth considering. One of them used to live in NYC and says it of course can't compare, but she still finds plenty to do and likes it well enough.
I used to live in Chicago. Yes, the winters are horrible, but in a lot of ways it's so much more livable there than here -- you can get much bigger apartments (even single-family houses in good neighborhoods!) for so, so much less than here, and you can still live in a fun neighborhood with lots of restaurants and culture. And when it's freezing, you drive everywhere (though you may have to shovel your car out first). Anyway, might be worth looking into. We'd move back there in a heartbeat, if only my husband's job could move with us.
And if you end up staying, I know lots of people here who have kids in one-bedroom apartments. One of my friends built a Murphy bed in their living room; they gave their son the bedroom, so they have the whole living area to themselves after he goes to bed. It works for them.
Finally, for the record, I left a very satisfying and creative (though low-paying) job to stay at home with my son, who is now two. I have never regretted it for even a split second. (But I have friends who are better parents for being back at work, and I get that, too.)
I just moved from Houston where i lived for 12 years. Housing is great and booming, the medical, energy and other industries are growing... Actually booming, cost of services and life in general is low for sucha big city, fourth largest in the country. It has the highest number of theatre seats anywhere, second only to NYC... museums are great and activities abound... You will get mosquitoes and very humid weather, but it is truly a great city... I just moved to NY actually for my own career and dragged husband and two kids for the adventure. I wouldn't have forgiven myself if i had turned down the great opportunity that was presented to me... Now i will not have to wonder what could have been... Good luck with your choices and hope you find a place you like.
We are a family with a toddler with only one income. My wife decided to stay at home for the first 3 years, but she is planning to return to work in 6-8 months from now. I have been to NYC couple of times, but I do not know much about it. My company is planning to expand to the US and it seems that I am the prime candidate to head the NY office. So I am reading this forum with great interest.
From what I am reading here I understand that NYC is quite similar in terms of opportunities and costs to London for almost anyone except the young middle class family. Wealthy people of course can find everything they need in both cities, single people will also have no problems in both cities. For families with small children it may be a bit different though.
It seems that London is a bit more child and family friendly than NYC. Our childcare cost is about £900 ($1400) per month for the full time 5 days a week nursery. Nanny costs £8/hour. London has good middle class boroughs with great schools. We rent a 2 bedroom flat (sized about 1000 Feet^2) with nice view over the river Thames for £1350/month ($2060) about 10 minute walk from the station and regular fast trains to City. For me it takes 45-50 minutes from door to door to get to work. Overall we spend about £3500/month ($5300) for everything.
We are lucky to live not far from London museums. Do not underestimate the fun. Our daughter despite being less than 3 absolutely loves museums. I take her regularly to Natural History Museum and she loves dinosaurs and big cats on display there. I strongly believe that big cultured cities benefit tremendously to child development.
Sheesh...you sounded so drowned in "IFs"...no wonder so many ppl need psychiatric meds today.
SAH mothers are not anything new and are well time tested to be functional in maintaining good essential societal and family values; whereas career mothers emerged and expanded within the last two generations which correlate with so many societal problems including but not limited to: 1) high divorce rates and dysfunctional families; 2) ignored children and consequential developmental/behavioral problems; 3) ever increasing level of stress in daily life for most double income families; and 4) dwindling birth rates among educated women that will eventually eradicate the "educated genes pool"...please feel free to add your own...
Please note that I am not implying there should be only SAH mothers considering that it is 2015. If situation allows, ladies like ms trish could turn her man (when she finds one) into a SAH father since she prefers to be the muscle lady and bring bread and butter home. The bottom line is, parents will pay for ignoring their children one way or another and sending your child to others' care will not fully redeem you from the poor decision.
Actually it's debatable how common SAH mothers were historically.
Before the industrial age when most people farmed, both the mother and father participated in the agricultural labor force. Most women didn't have the luxury of just tending the babies.
SAH Mom is the 50s ideal of a middle to upper class woman, and in these 1950 US circles yes most women were housewives. However that doesn't equate it to being the historical norm for women or even American women (in agricultural societies women do hard, physically demanding work often the kids in tow).
There is no scientific support of educated genes. Anyone can get an education.
And by the way, what educated man wants a worthless woman who just spawns out child after child? Why should he do all that hard work to take care of a woman who does nothing for him but act as an unpaid maid and babysitter?
I think a number of educated men born post 60 are attracted to women who can help them advance their careers in ways housewives can't (look at the Clintons and the Obamas) and in these families I don't think either Bill or Barack ever wanted 8 children. These are busy men and lots of kids just get in the way.
Also the top people send their kids to expensive private schools K-12, plus after that to top private universities.To get an undergraduate ivy league degree costs about 240k these days.
So I can't imagine highly educated people wanting to have 10 kids. How they can afford it unless they are going to feed their kids rice and beans and not give them an education beyond public school K-12?
So many people are so eager to be didactic and care so much about my career. I guess my inquiry doesn't matter, as long as I become convinced that I should not be a SAH, and must work full-time. Ok, I'm convinced, I will continue working full-time. Now everyone should take a breath, and move on to addressing the issue of surviving on a $160K combined salary in a warmer climate and a cheaper city with less stressors attributed to NYC.
Although, I predict there will be another surge of pedagogical nature, advising me that there is no other world out there, and there will be stressors everywhere, and the warm weather is not great at all. And that I shouldn't have children because the world is overpopulated, and children can be overwhelming monsters that suck the life right out of your veins. And to prepare myself because one day I'll get devorced, become decrepit and homeless and my children will throw spit balls at me. And we should just plow our way through this forest of adversity and misery until we die....
I don't know if questions like these can be adequately answered on this forum because you're asking total strangers who don't know you or know where you're coming from.
If you have to ask these sorts of questions, ask people who you know and whose advise you generally respect. Hopefully you and your husband both have people in your lives like this.
Really? Are we both talking about academic/civil education?
How come that over 70% of CUNY freshmen require additional HS math/reading tutoring to prepare them for their college curriculum?
At this point you're just trolling and it's pathetic dude.
CUNY takes in working class people, many of whom are IMMIGRANTS with poor or nearly NON EXISTENT ENGLISH SKILLS.
Wealthy American families can afford to send their kids to the best private schools K-12, and from there they can compete for admission to the best universities (the kids have taking tutoring services for the SAT and the best exams). It takes a fantastic amount of work on the behalf of the parents AND the child in order to be able to get in and graduate from a top universities.
It has nothing to do with genes or so called smartness.
Reality is moving anywhere outside of nyc will be a shock and a big adjustment. If you don't like the cold you can slash out Cleveland, philly, Madison, Chicago. LA is expensive, in some parts as much as nyc. San Diego is decent but not a big job market and you'd likely get bored unless you love the ocean. Atlanta or the Carolinas sound like your best bet. If you like the east coast do not go west coast, you will find yourself miserable. I disagree your husbands salary will decrease significantly. I think he should be making more and likely could in areas where there is not such fierce competition! New york is really not wonderful for salaries unless you're in very specific markets. For instance an RN in Minneapolis makes about 60k starting and in NYC makes $70-75k meanwhile rent is half the dollar amount for double the space in Minneapolis. Granted you need a car but that's about the only financial difference and with NYC taxes you are pretty much back at ground zero. So yes there are other places that have nicer living quarters for lower prices.
It's quiet amusing how obsessed posters are with my career, even though it has nothing to do with my inquiry. I might as well have created a thread titled "Should I quit my job?" Thanks to those who actually offered specific suggestions and addressed the topic at hand.
I'm not sure what to conclude from such passionate replies. Is it telling of our workaholic culture that even though an individual is ready to make that move and understands the ramifications, it's preposterous to imagine that a person would want to quit their job and focus on something valuable and essential, like a family and a child?
Or perhaps that the post-Silent generations can't imagine their live's purpose without work? Or perhaps Baby Boomer women have been ingrained with a conviction that life without a career and a SAH arrangement is deadly to human progress, individualism and ones intelligence? The fear of the motherly/family abyss as if it were some sort of fatal affliction! This can be similarly compared to the reluctance to retire, so many people of retirement age are delaying the processes out of fear that they will have meaningless lives (of course I'm excluding those who maintain their posts due to financial dependency). They would rather stay at their soulless jobs infiltrated with complaints, instead of embracing a life where one can do volunteer work or fill ones day with recreational activities, or travel (gasp). Have people become automatons, labor slaves, vapid followers of a dull routine? Work, go home, complain about your job, eat, watch TV, go to sleep and start the cycle all over again, only to be interrupted by complaining about bills and not having enough money, perhaps fighting with your spouse? And somehow raising a child, watching them grow, visiting parks and beaches, playing educational games, teaching them life skills, cooking, creating a warm household, etc is not as rewarding as a daily grind of work? What sort of world do we live in? A few of my friends are SAH to newborns, they couldn't be happier and cherish every day they get to spend with their babies. They are happier than they have ever been at work.
Several friends and acquaintances have expressed the longing to stay home with their children, but are unable to do so due to financial constraints. Others are SAH suburban affluent moms with spoiled children, and have impressive dedication to play dates with wine, gossiping about neighbors, trying to outdo one another while their kids become exponentially unbearable human beings. The priorities are skewed. Having a child after the age of 30 is something one finally desires, not because of societal or parental pressure, but because they are ready to take that step, where as before women were expected to pop out a baby after marriage, having never experienced a life of a professional. Perhaps that's where the discrepancy exists?
I think this work obsessed culture is often a sign of commonplace factors. Those who are star employees who don't take vacation, invest a lot of face-time, can't face retirement and can't imagine taking a day off once in a while just because they want to have a fun day off... are most likely suffering from dull personal lives, problematic relationships or troubled situations at home. Work is their escapism, it doesn't really make them very pleasant, optimistic or highly effective employees, just over zealous workaholics. One of my coworkers had to take his vacation days, because he was unable to carry them over and chose to come in to work the entire week "to clean his office." Another co-worker of mine, says she will never retire, she hates the place and complains about it every single day, yet she is always present. I came to find out that she has serious issues at home and work (no matter how unpleasant) is her escape. Another co-worker at my husband's former job worked super long hours, and occasionally slept in his office - his wife and him were at each other's throats most times.
I guess I also side-tracked with this rant, but these replies just got me thinking. And as a final point, a while back I decided to quit my full-time job, and only keep my part-time position which was in my field, this was a strategic decision because I believed my full time job was holding me back professionally. There was a massive gossip mill, people couldn't believe I was planning to take this bold step! "What will you do with your spare time?," people who barely worked and socialized the entire day asked incredulously? "Is it really wise for her to quit this full-time position? How will she survive?" It didn't matter that I told everyone that financially it was not going to make the slightest of a difference, that I was in a very comfortable position. The whispers of disapproval continued. Several wonderful months later I got a fantastic job and doubled my full-time salary, just like I knew I would. Maybe in part it was also jealousy that many couldn't afford to do it. But mainly, I think that most people define themselves by their work no matter how pointless and aggravating they think it is. I guess it's difficult to understand.
My husband and I love spending time with one another, and can't get enough, and we've been married for 8 years. Our time together is never boring, and we just don't have enough hours in the day to do the many things that we want. When I worked part-time, my husband came home to a spotless home with a fresh meal waiting for him, I was in a good mood and full of energy. This completely freed up our weekends from running errands and doing endless chores, and we were able to enjoy our time of leisure, reading, dancing, taking small trips, going to film festivals, etc. or visiting family and friends. I don't understand, how that can be a bad thing for the well-being of a family, unless there is, indeed, some sort of void in the people's personal lives.
I cannot agree with your post more!
Just last night I was reflecting at how happy I am as a housewife after reading some snark about '50s housewives being bored with nothing to do. We haven't been able to have children yet, but I do so much with my time! I enjoy the projects and home improvements that I work on, and I enjoy cooking healthy and tasty meals. I get to do my hobbies, basically. I am college educated and decently informed, but I find satisfaction I being able to create, take time to read, and make a cosy/beautiful/maintained home.
My SIL and MIL look at me like some sort of weird scum for not having a career right now. They do little but complain about their work though, and my SIL does not much but gossip and low skilled tasks at her job. So what if I don't want that and can admit it? Luckily I don't give a crap about anyone's judgement of me, and I am very content. I just laugh and judge them when those people (frequently) comment admiringly on my handyman skills and the like when they just don't have time or the simple knowledge that I gained from growing up on a farm, wanting to learn, and not wanting to pay everyone to do everything. I find value in what I do with my life, and I wouldn't feel as pleased if I wasted my time on a job. (Very different from a career that gives meaning. I am privileged not to have to work right now, very privileged but I appreciate it!)
ETA: OP, we just moved to Croton on Hudson from Flushing. We love it already. Move here so we can be friends? ;D
Last edited by alba!ny; 02-22-2015 at 11:54 AM..
Reason: To add
Reality is moving anywhere outside of nyc will be a shock and a big adjustment. If you don't like the cold you can slash out Cleveland, philly, Madison, Chicago. LA is expensive, in some parts as much as nyc. San Diego is decent but not a big job market and you'd likely get bored unless you love the ocean. Atlanta or the Carolinas sound like your best bet. If you like the east coast do not go west coast, you will find yourself miserable. I disagree your husbands salary will decrease significantly. I think he should be making more and likely could in areas where there is not such fierce competition! New york is really not wonderful for salaries unless you're in very specific markets. For instance an RN in Minneapolis makes about 60k starting and in NYC makes $70-75k meanwhile rent is half the dollar amount for double the space in Minneapolis. Granted you need a car but that's about the only financial difference and with NYC taxes you are pretty much back at ground zero. So yes there are other places that have nicer living quarters for lower prices.
The thing is you don't know what her husband makes or what field he works in or what level he is at.
So you have insufficient information to say what will happen to his salary. This is something he will need to research as he looks at potential places to move to.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
