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Old 09-05-2015, 01:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ControlJohnsons View Post
south bronx from 138th up to the low 170's will have unique neighborhoods. it won't be one size fit all area for one specific demographic. obviuosly, some blocks will cost alot more than others, have greater amenities, etc.. that's how it goes.

this has already been done and is being done in harlem. south harlem is beautiful. south harlem brownstones sell for $4m now, wheras they were worth 1/10th that 10 years ago. certain areas of harlem will go for less, depending on neighborhood. same goes for any area in nyc.

i completely disagree with what you wrote about what people want. there as a vast population who do not want to move to a burb like setting, live in a bungalow, and find that little bit of suburb life in brooklyn, and instead want an urban option close to midtown. why else do you think millionaires and billionaires live in places such as park ave and lexington. not everyone wants a white fence and lawn.

and the bronx is not a far reach outside of manhattan, as i posted even from 168th, yankees stadium it's a 19 minute subway ride to 42nd. it takes me twice as long from soho to get wait for a slow 6 train to get to midtown.

the only reason the other boroughs gentrified before harlem and bronx, as i wrote i a previous post is for the politically incorrect truth that harlem and south bronx have large african american population. that is the only reason.
No one thinks that. Brooklyn has the largest african american population by far. Bed-Stuy has the largest african american population in the city based on population to area square footage. Has been featured in all of Jay-Z and the Notorious BIG songs, in Spike Lee movies. All BLACK, now look where we are today with gentrification in the area but still more african american then anything. The Bronx is more known for its latino community more than any other race community, hello JLO or Big Pun. Harlem lost many of the black community it had and is also a large hispanic community. Trust race means nothing in terms of where gentrification will hit.

Last edited by cheyenne2134; 09-05-2015 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 09-05-2015, 01:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheyenne2134 View Post
Outside details, superficial details meaning what people can see. The person renting don't care if the building has a steel beem.
Im making assumptions of what is already coming to pass in Brooklyn. Gentrification and developers are the same cycle overtime. Its all about the dollars for developers, they will save details if they have enough to fix the basics. People don't want small, slow moving elevators. They want modern and old mixed in. They aren't going to pay for original moldings when the elevator won't work because it needs to be completely replaced and upgraded. or pay the premium without have central air. At the end of the day Brooklyn nor Bronx is Manhattan, that can get away with substandard living conditions and still attract good clientele renting for a market rate price.
on the contrary. rents in midtown park ave and lexington built on the same art deco mammoth beam/concrete/limestone architecture has always rented and sold at premium vs their gramercy and hell's kitchen competitors. it's ALL about the architecture especially those who BUY. i'm not paying top dollars for a crappy k hovnanian stick construction where u hear your neighbors have sex thru the thin walls.
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Old 09-05-2015, 01:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheyenne2134 View Post
No one thinks that. Brooklyn has the largest african american population by far. Bed-Stuy has the largest african american population in the city based on population to area square footage. Has been featured in all of Jay-Z and the Notorious BIG songs, in Spike Lee movies. All BLACK, now look where we are today with gentrification in the area but still more african american then anything. The Bronx is more known for its latino community more than any other race community.
but you don't understand. that population is enclaved in brooklyn. whites don't associate with blacks in brooklyn and vice versa. just because they're in your borough doesn't make them one of you. in fact most of them see you transplants as aliens invading their turf, even the native "whites" don't like you. many transplants in brooklyn pride themselves in diversity, but the truth is, they don't associate outside of their clans. gentrification in nw brooklyn happened, when transitory blacks were forced out. this is completely different scenario in harlem and south bronx, where african americans are the mainstay natives and owners of that turf.

Last edited by ControlJohnsons; 09-05-2015 at 02:10 PM..
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Old 09-05-2015, 01:57 PM
 
1,278 posts, read 1,240,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheyenne2134 View Post
Outside details, superficial details meaning what people can see. The person renting don't care if the building has a steel beem.
Im making assumptions of what is already coming to pass in Brooklyn. Gentrification and developers are the same cycle overtime. Its all about the dollars for developers, they will save details if they have enough to fix the basics. People don't want small, slow moving elevators. They want modern and old mixed in. They aren't going to pay for original moldings when the elevator won't work because it needs to be completely replaced and upgraded. or pay the premium without have central air. At the end of the day Brooklyn nor Bronx is Manhattan, that can get away with substandard living conditions and still attract good clientele renting for a market rate price.
one of the biggest reasons why south bronx architecture has weathered the 100 year cycle and remains in extremely good condition is because of how it was built.
there is no doubt things such as elevators and central air will be upgraded, these are very BASIC things.. and we're not talking small fish, all the deep pocket developers are picking up properties in the $billions.

but developers will definitely market the original fascade and restorations made. that is one of the biggest selling points to any condo sale in nyc. they become landmarked over time, people absolute lust after original pre-war, and values rise faster than competing buildings that were built much later.

Last edited by ControlJohnsons; 09-05-2015 at 03:19 PM..
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ControlJohnsons View Post
on the contrary. rents in midtown park ave and lexington built on the same art deco mammoth beam/concrete/limestone architecture has always rented and sold at premium vs their gramercy and hell's kitchen competitors. it's ALL about the architecture especially those who BUY. i'm not paying top dollars for a crappy k hovnanian stick construction where u hear your neighbors have sex thru the thin walls.
And average person isnt buying a 40 unit art-deco building to live in it. Developers are, they aren't living there so therefore as long as the dollars make sense and they can get market rate without keeping details. Why would they keep them especially if it cost more to maintain and fix then to get rid of it, its happening all over brooklyn in old apartment buildings.
The Bronx and Brooklyn is not Manhattan. Im a landlord, if i want premium rates for my rentals i need to have the basics and then some to justify my asking rent. The competition for rentals at market price is steep and if i want quality renters at the price i want i needed central air, stainless steel appliances, larger bedrooms,etc. Brooklyn is not manhattan, the bronx isn't manhattan and would never be. People move from Manhattan for cheaper rents and larger spaces, the details is a plus. I was a buyer and renter, and now a landlord.
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:11 PM
 
1,278 posts, read 1,240,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheyenne2134 View Post
And average person isnt buying a 40 unit art-deco building to live in it. Developers are, they aren't living there so therefore as long as the dollars make sense and they can get market rate without keeping details. Why would they keep them especially if it cost more to maintain and fix then to get rid of it, its happening all over brooklyn in old apartment buildings.
The Bronx and Brooklyn is not Manhattan. Im a landlord, if i want premium rates for my rentals i need to have the basics and then some to justify my asking rent. The competition for rentals at market price is steep and if i want quality renters at the price i want i needed central air, stainless steel appliances, larger bedrooms,etc. Brooklyn is not manhattan, the bronx isn't manhattan and would never be. People move from Manhattan for cheaper rents and larger spaces, the details is a plus. I was a buyer and renter, and now a landlord.
no, avg person isn't buying a building, but they are buying condos. many of these buildings will be sold as condos, some as entire floor penthouses with roofdeck, some as individual apts. and you ask why developers would keep details? cos this is NYC. and that's what we do and the NY condo buyer wants that. this isn't wabash or secaucus. also, as i wrote above, many of the exterior details in south bronx buildings remain in excellent condition. interior renovation is more of an issue. criminals didn't climb walls like spiderman and hammer them out. nor were there any bombs dropped on nyc. limestone lasts for centuries and even eons.

Last edited by ControlJohnsons; 09-05-2015 at 03:20 PM..
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:22 PM
 
1,721 posts, read 1,141,008 times
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Originally Posted by ControlJohnsons View Post
but you don't understand. that population is enclaved in brooklyn. whites don't associate with blacks in brooklyn and vice versa. just because they're in your borough doesn't make them one of you. in fact most of them see you transplants as aliens invading their turf, even the native "whites". many people in brooklyn pride themselves in diversity, but the truth is, they don't associate outside of their clans. gentrification in nw brooklyn happened, when transitory blacks were forced out. this is completely different scenario in harlem and south bronx, where african americans are the mainstay natives and owners of that turf.

False again, sighs. I guess i need to spend more time in the bronx and you should in brooklyn. Brooklyn is diverse, and has large african american, west indian, russian/polish, italian, chinese, korean, etc all in different neighborhoods.And i agree they pretty much stay in their respective neighborhoods. Like you said gentrification purposely targeted the black neighborhoods, fort greene, downtown brooklyn, crown heights, bushwick(larger hispanic community) and bed stuy. Its easier to take over a disenfranchised area then an already established one where poverty isn't an issue (midwood, bay ridge, basically southern brooklyn) But now those same areas especially BedStuy still has a large black population that owns and takes care of their beautiful brownstones and over the next few years it will become more diverse with different cultures moving in. You go out to bars and restaurant and see a beautiful sea of different faces. Same situation in Harlem, like i said before the problem isn't that people associate the bronx with black people, that means nothing in gentrification. They need a reason to go to the Bronx, the bronx needs to be rebranded, people think of the bronx they thing of projects not black people and like i said that means nothing for gentrification. Hipsters love being the only (white) ones. If anything people associate the Bronx with JLO
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:26 PM
 
1,721 posts, read 1,141,008 times
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Originally Posted by ControlJohnsons View Post
no, avg person isn't buying a building, but they are buying condos. many of these buildings will be sold as condos, some as entire floor penthouses with roofdeck, some as individual apts. and you ask why developers would keep details? cos this is NYC. and that's what we do and the NY condo buyer wants that. this isn't wabash or secaucus. also, as i wrote above, many of the exterior details in south bronx buildings remain in excellent condition. interior renovation is more of an issue. criminals didn't climb walls like spiderman and hammer them out. nor was there any bombs dropped on nyc. limestone lasts for centuries and even eons.
Yes I'm talking about interior details, people want original details in their home. However thats a niche clientele, people still want modern, the bronx is a long way from making condos in prewar buildings. Developers rather rent then sell in NYC. Maybe turn into Co-ops but like i said a long way from that. Rental buildings will pop up first and if the comps are there for condos they may start. There are barley any condos in Brooklyn, we are a renting city.
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:31 PM
 
1,278 posts, read 1,240,027 times
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Originally Posted by cheyenne2134 View Post
Yes I'm talking about interior details, people want original details in their home. However thats a niche clientele, people still want modern, the bronx is a long way from making condos in prewar buildings. Developers rather rent then sell in NYC. Maybe turn into Co-ops but like i said a long way from that. Rental buildings will pop up first and if the comps are there for condos the may start.
it's already happening. buildings are being reno'ed left and right, you will see listings of new condo spaces by 2016. developers will put alot into restoring original lobbies. i agree there is not much demand for original interior details. but living in a reno'ed south bronx apt will feel far superior to one of those khovnanian stick condo buildings that's going up all over nw brooklyn where you can hear morning conversations of your neighbors.

fyi i lived in the original paine webber building on wall st., you are correct most people want the basic interior upgrades, but the 100 year old marble lobby sells the rental units instantly.

Last edited by ControlJohnsons; 09-05-2015 at 03:32 PM..
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ControlJohnsons View Post
it's already happening. buildings are being reno'ed left and right, you will see listings of new condo spaces by 2016. interior details, developers will put alot into restoring original lobbies. i agree there is not much demand for original interior details, but living in a reno'ed south bronx apt will feel far superior to one of those khovnanian stick condo buildings that's going up all over nw brooklyn where you can hear morning conversations of your neighbors.
I hope the condos pay off, so then they will continue to preserve the buildings. I think its too soon, market rate rentals should start first, then the brownstones renovated and preserved. Then covert buildings to co-ops, following condos. So the comps make sense, building condos out of nowhere is too quick there needs to be more amenities in the area first. but I believe in the bronx, a lot of potential. And If i didn't tie up my investments in Brooklyn I would have bought a rental building there a long time ago.
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