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Italian-American neighborhoods really are a thing of the past. Sure, you'll find people of 'Italian-Ancestry' but you're hardly come across neighborhoods vibrant with any 'traditional'Italian culture. I'd say for at least the next 50+ years, you'll be safe if you move somewhere along the southshore of Staten Island. After that, I don't know what's going to happen. But like others have mentioned here, moving to NYC just to 'be with your own' is a pretty bad idea considering it's one of the most expensive places to live. It's much better to live somewhere where you're financially secure than to move somewhere wearing your nostalgia goggles; for I guarantee that you'll be really disappointed.
You can live in Dyker, South Shore, or Howard Beach and have that experience. Disseminating bad info much?
Decline in Italians in not just New York City but elsewhere was baked into the cake when the Kennedy immigration reform bill was passed. That dog of a law shifted immigration patterns to the USA from Europe to Latin America/Mexico, parts of Asia and so forth.
This statement is completely false. The decline of Italians in the USA was the result of the National Origins Quotas Act of 1924, which gave preference to white immigrants (read: northern Europeans) at the expense of everyone else. The aim of that legislation was specifically to restrict Italian immigrants and other southern and eastern Europeans, who up until then had not been subject to any quotas or restrictions. For example, during the first decade of the 20th century, close to 200,000 people were coming from Italy. The quota law reduced that number to about 5,000 per year. So, in 1925, the year after quotas, more Italians left USA than entered.
The adverse effect this 1924 legislation had on Italian American communities can't be overestimated: with no one coming anymore, ethnic enclaves lost their Italian roots, immigrants continued to get old and die off, etc. In addition, during the '50s and '60s the American-born generations moved out to the suburbs, further gutting the old neighborhoods.
The 1965 immigration legislation you mention, while it did ultimately have the effect of shifting immigration patterns to Asia and Latin America, initially intended to level the playing field in Europe. The northern European nations were not filling their huge quotas, while nations such as Italy had six digit backlogs in people seeking visas. So, what happened? From 1965-1975, Italy was at the top of immigration to the USA, but as the Italian economy improved and other immigration options in Europe opened, the USA was no longer an important destination. The Italians who came in this 1965-present period are the ones who replenished (as much as their numbers could) IA neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Queens, and Bronx that had lost population to the suburbs. So, in reality, a much different "cake" was "baked" than you suggest with you comment. Had the 1965 legislation not occurred, the neighborhoods that we can continue to call Italian would have become American neighborhoods or something else, so don't underestimate the importance of the post-1965 Italian immigration.
That said, I grew up in Carroll Gardens in the 1980s and now live in Bensonhurst. Whatever italianita' is left in either area is the result of this post-1965 immigration. White people started moving into Carroll Gardens and changing the flavor to a yuppie neighborhood. When I was growing up, you heard Italian dialects all over the place, now its all white people. Bensonhurst, while it has certainly changed dramatically, still has a lot (or enough in my case) to offer an Italian American and for my parents who can't speak much English, it's still a place where their needs are met.
The fact that different populations move into a neighborhood is inevitable. It's the people who left, either by moving or by dying, who changed the neighborhood, and despite all these changes, there are many pockets of italianita' that can be enjoyed in NYC. Go out an enjoy them.
This statement is completely false. The decline of Italians in the USA was the result of the National Origins Quotas Act of 1924, which gave preference to white immigrants (read: northern Europeans) at the expense of everyone else. The aim of that legislation was specifically to restrict Italian immigrants and other southern and eastern Europeans, who up until then had not been subject to any quotas or restrictions. For example, during the first decade of the 20th century, close to 200,000 people were coming from Italy. The quota law reduced that number to about 5,000 per year. So, in 1925, the year after quotas, more Italians left USA than entered.
The adverse effect this 1924 legislation had on Italian American communities can't be overestimated: with no one coming anymore, ethnic enclaves lost their Italian roots, immigrants continued to get old and die off, etc. In addition, during the '50s and '60s the American-born generations moved out to the suburbs, further gutting the old neighborhoods.
The 1965 immigration legislation you mention, while it did ultimately have the effect of shifting immigration patterns to Asia and Latin America, initially intended to level the playing field in Europe. The northern European nations were not filling their huge quotas, while nations such as Italy had six digit backlogs in people seeking visas. So, what happened? From 1965-1975, Italy was at the top of immigration to the USA, but as the Italian economy improved and other immigration options in Europe opened, the USA was no longer an important destination. The Italians who came in this 1965-present period are the ones who replenished (as much as their numbers could) IA neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Queens, and Bronx that had lost population to the suburbs. So, in reality, a much different "cake" was "baked" than you suggest with you comment. Had the 1965 legislation not occurred, the neighborhoods that we can continue to call Italian would have become American neighborhoods or something else, so don't underestimate the importance of the post-1965 Italian immigration.
That said, I grew up in Carroll Gardens in the 1980s and now live in Bensonhurst. Whatever italianita' is left in either area is the result of this post-1965 immigration. White people started moving into Carroll Gardens and changing the flavor to a yuppie neighborhood. When I was growing up, you heard Italian dialects all over the place, now its all white people. Bensonhurst, while it has certainly changed dramatically, still has a lot (or enough in my case) to offer an Italian American and for my parents who can't speak much English, it's still a place where their needs are met.
The fact that different populations move into a neighborhood is inevitable. It's the people who left, either by moving or by dying, who changed the neighborhood, and despite all these changes, there are many pockets of italianita' that can be enjoyed in NYC. Go out an enjoy them.
This statement is completely false. The decline of Italians in the USA was the result of the National Origins Quotas Act of 1924, which gave preference to white immigrants (read: northern Europeans) at the expense of everyone else. The aim of that legislation was specifically to restrict Italian immigrants and other southern and eastern Europeans, who up until then had not been subject to any quotas or restrictions. For example, during the first decade of the 20th century, close to 200,000 people were coming from Italy. The quota law reduced that number to about 5,000 per year. So, in 1925, the year after quotas, more Italians left USA than entered.
The adverse effect this 1924 legislation had on Italian American communities can't be overestimated: with no one coming anymore, ethnic enclaves lost their Italian roots, immigrants continued to get old and die off, etc. In addition, during the '50s and '60s the American-born generations moved out to the suburbs, further gutting the old neighborhoods.
The 1965 immigration legislation you mention, while it did ultimately have the effect of shifting immigration patterns to Asia and Latin America, initially intended to level the playing field in Europe. The northern European nations were not filling their huge quotas, while nations such as Italy had six digit backlogs in people seeking visas. So, what happened? From 1965-1975, Italy was at the top of immigration to the USA, but as the Italian economy improved and other immigration options in Europe opened, the USA was no longer an important destination. The Italians who came in this 1965-present period are the ones who replenished (as much as their numbers could) IA neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Queens, and Bronx that had lost population to the suburbs. So, in reality, a much different "cake" was "baked" than you suggest with you comment. Had the 1965 legislation not occurred, the neighborhoods that we can continue to call Italian would have become American neighborhoods or something else, so don't underestimate the importance of the post-1965 Italian immigration.
That said, I grew up in Carroll Gardens in the 1980s and now live in Bensonhurst. Whatever italianita' is left in either area is the result of this post-1965 immigration. White people started moving into Carroll Gardens and changing the flavor to a yuppie neighborhood. When I was growing up, you heard Italian dialects all over the place, now its all white people. Bensonhurst, while it has certainly changed dramatically, still has a lot (or enough in my case) to offer an Italian American and for my parents who can't speak much English, it's still a place where their needs are met.
The fact that different populations move into a neighborhood is inevitable. It's the people who left, either by moving or by dying, who changed the neighborhood, and despite all these changes, there are many pockets of italianita' that can be enjoyed in NYC. Go out an enjoy them.
This statement is completely false. The decline of Italians in the USA was the result of the National Origins Quotas Act of 1924, which gave preference to white immigrants (read: northern Europeans) at the expense of everyone else. The aim of that legislation was specifically to restrict Italian immigrants and other southern and eastern Europeans, who up until then had not been subject to any quotas or restrictions. For example, during the first decade of the 20th century, close to 200,000 people were coming from Italy. The quota law reduced that number to about 5,000 per year. So, in 1925, the year after quotas, more Italians left USA than entered.
The adverse effect this 1924 legislation had on Italian American communities can't be overestimated: with no one coming anymore, ethnic enclaves lost their Italian roots, immigrants continued to get old and die off, etc. In addition, during the '50s and '60s the American-born generations moved out to the suburbs, further gutting the old neighborhoods.
The 1965 immigration legislation you mention, while it did ultimately have the effect of shifting immigration patterns to Asia and Latin America, initially intended to level the playing field in Europe. The northern European nations were not filling their huge quotas, while nations such as Italy had six digit backlogs in people seeking visas. So, what happened? From 1965-1975, Italy was at the top of immigration to the USA, but as the Italian economy improved and other immigration options in Europe opened, the USA was no longer an important destination. The Italians who came in this 1965-present period are the ones who replenished (as much as their numbers could) IA neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Queens, and Bronx that had lost population to the suburbs. So, in reality, a much different "cake" was "baked" than you suggest with you comment. Had the 1965 legislation not occurred, the neighborhoods that we can continue to call Italian would have become American neighborhoods or something else, so don't underestimate the importance of the post-1965 Italian immigration.
That said, I grew up in Carroll Gardens in the 1980s and now live in Bensonhurst. Whatever italianita' is left in either area is the result of this post-1965 immigration. White people started moving into Carroll Gardens and changing the flavor to a yuppie neighborhood. When I was growing up, you heard Italian dialects all over the place, now its all white people. Bensonhurst, while it has certainly changed dramatically, still has a lot (or enough in my case) to offer an Italian American and for my parents who can't speak much English, it's still a place where their needs are met.
The fact that different populations move into a neighborhood is inevitable. It's the people who left, either by moving or by dying, who changed the neighborhood, and despite all these changes, there are many pockets of italianita' that can be enjoyed in NYC. Go out an enjoy them.
That depends on who you ask. Historically, Italians have not been considered white, and am here to tell you some Italians don't call themselves such either. Legally, yes, have the *privilege* to write in white, but what they call themselves unofficially is another matter. Can tell you having been to Italy, there are definitely Italians that look quite mixed because some actually are. Historically, Italians are a mixed group anyway, even in the North. Difference is the type of mixtures in the North vs the South and Sicily and Sardinia.
That depends on who you ask. Historically, Italians have not been considered white, and am here to tell you some Italians don't call themselves such either. Legally, yes, have the *privilege* to write in white, but what they call themselves unofficially is another matter. Can tell you having been to Italy, there are definitely Italians that look quite mixed because some actually are. Historically, Italians are a mixed group anyway, even in the North. Difference is the type of mixtures in the North vs the South and Sicily and Sardinia.
Italians have been considered white since at least World War II.
Even white supremacists consider Italians white now.
In fact, if you claim that Italians or any other form of Europeans are not white, they'll accuse you of being a Jew trying to divide and conquer the white race.
I've heard of Klan members with Italian sounding surnames.
I know a lot of racist rednecks and none of them have any issues with Italians.
I've never know any Italians to not consider themselves white, nor have I heard anyone refer to them as not being white in real life.
My take on this is that the "guidos" have mostly left/are leaving the city (aside from places like South Shore Staten Island), but plenty of Italian descended people are part of the mainstream white population.
Italians have been considered white since at least World War II.
Even white supremacists consider Italians white now.
In fact, if you claim that Italians or any other form of Europeans are not white, they'll accuse you of being a Jew trying to divide and conquer the white race.
I've heard of Klan members with Italian sounding surnames.
I know a lot of racist rednecks and none of them have any issues with Italians.
I've never know any Italians to not consider themselves white, nor have I heard anyone refer to them as not being white in real life.
Not denying any of that, but I know of plenty of Southern Italians that may put down white on paper but don't get too into that being white thing. That's especially true of Sicilians. Historically, any time that there's been a threat to the size of the white population, the government has turned to populations not considered white and given them *white status*. When Italians came over they were in the same boat as blacks, and there are a number of books and movies that document this. Vendetta is a good example.
Now the U.S. has *white Hispanics* as a category. It's laughable. Am sure there are plenty of Hispanics that may have light skin but their features say otherwise, even some of the South Americans from places like Chile and Argentina. I always pay attention to features more than anything. They say a lot about a person.
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