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It's really not normal level of stress compared to most well-performing schools. In fact, in the US and NYC, many middle class people are put off on the emphasis on the state tests.
I understand what you're saying -- you consider the education model (Chinese?), with a strong emphasis on testing, to be superior. Plus, you think certain continents/cultures are inferior for not following this model. I personally am not a fan and would be very upset if the US were to base it's education system on China.
I am not for the chinese/east asian educational model at all, neither would I want to copycat its model here in the us. As a matter of fact, despite its emphasis on high test score as the sole criterion of educational efficacy, the result is largely dismal nationwide in china given that over 50% of their students fail their national standardized tests especially in the vast rural areas. The fact that east asian kids performing disproportionally well at american schools can mislead many americans into thinking that kids back in east asia are performing similarly well...it is not, not even close. The point I tried to make in my reply was that the competitive pressure and stress associated with east asian educational environment has a positive influence on increasing the proportion of their students to make better use of learning potential. But that is not enough to help all kids to become good at school. And many kids are proably born to be not a learner at school and should have been put on alternative educational routes early on instead of being forced through the same rigid educational system.
I am not for the chinese/east asian educational model at all, neither would I want to copycat its model here in the us. As a matter of fact, despite its emphasis on high test score as the sole criterion of educational efficacy, the result is largely dismal nationwide in china given that over 50% of their students fail their national standardized tests especially in the vast rural areas. The fact that east asian kids performing disproportionally well at american schools can mislead many americans into thinking that kids back in east asia are performing similarly well...it is not, not even close. The point I tried to make in my reply was that the competitive pressure and stress associated with east asian educational environment has a positive influence on increasing the proportion of their students to make better use of learning potential. But that is not enough to help all kids to become good at school. And many kids are proably born to be not a learner at school and should have been put on alternative educational routes early on instead of being forced through the same rigid educational system.
I'm glad to have misunderstood. In my opinion, competition is fine, but not up to the point where kids are wetting their pants during tests. I've read scary things about the system in China, but hear some people talk about it with such awe here that sometimes I fear that we'll move closer to that model little by little.
I'm glad it all worked out for you. I guess you parent (or plan to parent) your own kids in the same way?
It's interesting, but one broad generalization I have read is that black parents in the US tend to be more strict already than white parents--with whites more likely to discuss why the kid needs to or can't do something rather than to simply say--do it or don't do it.
Everyone has their own perspective and I guess we base it on our own experiences. None of my friends whose kids have gotten into good high schools (and many have kids in specialized schools) have worked their kids to the bone with test prep, and most have not been very strict parents. They had certain expectations for their kids and communicated them early on though.
I do cringe though when someone expresses the opinion that black and white children should be treated differently - either in schools or at home. Just saying as a mother of black/white kids myself...
you may cringe, but I am taking the stance I have because the world does not treat black and white individuals in the same way. The black kids need to be more disciplined and better educated.
Also black is too general a term, there are many different black groups. Each of them performing in different ways. Jewish Americans in the main are white, but their socio-economic profile is very different from other Caucasian Americans.
Likewise Nigerian Americans often don't suffer from the same problems as some other black groups due to a focus on Education and Discipline.
In an ideal world both sets of children should be treated the same. But that is not how the dice of life was loaded for either group. To borrow a phrase I love "Deal with the world not as you would like it to be, but as it actually is".
By good places, I mean Ivy league and nothing less than the top 5 colleges. Mainly only WASP children who I studied with had relaxed parenting, as they dont suffer discrimination. Everyone else myself included grafted to get to the top.
Out competing everyone else is the only surefire way to success. You can moan till the cows come home, but that is the only answer, especially if you look or are perceived as the different/the other.
Last edited by nograviti; 04-08-2015 at 02:04 PM..
Reason: spelling
you may cringe, but I am taking the stance I have because the world does not treat black and white individuals in the same way. The black kids need to be more disciplined and better educated.
I'm not saying that black kids shouldn't have discipline, but that they should be disciplined differently from white kids - absolutely not. But that's often what happens in the school system. I don't condone it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nograviti
By good places, I mean Ivy league and nothing less than the top 5 colleges. Mainly only WASP children who I studied with had relaxed parenting, as they dont suffer discrimination. Everyone else myself included grafted to get to the top.
As long as you don't mention the Ivy League every few posts....Personally, I just don't care whether you're an Ivy Leaguer or not and don't think it's the only road to success for either blacks or whites.
Do people really believe hedge fund managers are spending millions on charter school efforts because they care about education? You have guys spending money on charters like Carl Icahn whose history is buying and selling companies to squeeze money out of them and couldn't care less if they end up putting the company out of business if it makes them a profit. The hedge funds just want to get their hands on the billions spent on education. To do that they spend millions on lobbying and commercials. It's not about the students, it's about the money.
1) Yale, Harvard, Princeton... all private, not public. Riverdale, Horace Mann, and countless other excellent private schools - all run as businesses. So what the hell are you talking about? Don't let the facts get in the way of your dogma.
2) Virtually every sphere where there are both government-run and "privately" run entities performing the same service, the privately-run entity excels. Don't get the job done? Your charter sinks. The traditional schools not getting the job done? Carry on......
Politics and drama. NYC Charter schools are doing well. Fix NYC traditional public schools - I'm all for that. Unfortunately the energy is being expended on...drama and politics. Screw the kids, I'm in a political argument and I wanna win!
You are making a big mistake, and you may have already realized this.
"Private" and "privatization" are not identical - not at all. Few would dispute that many private schools are superior to their public counterparts, and many private universities could rightfully claim the same.
Now, compare private schools to "privatized" charters. There is seldom competition. You said it yourself - "the privately run entity excels." This is true. The problem is that few, if any, of the charter schools - privatized education - operate at the level of the best privates.
This is the case because they are entirely different in aim and ambition. The superior private schools are focused on creating value, a "product" if you will. To do so, they assemble the best teachers, facilities ... and so on. The privatization evidenced by the charter schools was the result of research that revealed a potential "market" opened by the failures of the public schools - an opportunity for value extraction, otherwise stated. Fixing the public schools, which should have been done, was less profitable for whatever group involved than making something entirely new and, fundamentally, entirely different.
Using "statistics" this is marketed as "value creation," and the great unwashed, the ignorant public, are buying it. And will continue to do so until there is a crash and burn.
Actually I think less are buying it than had been hoped. But look at some of the shrieking ignorance here. Entertaining perhaps but also ... not.
Mainly only WASP children who I studied with had relaxed parenting, as they dont suffer discrimination. Everyone else myself included grafted to get to the top.
Given the world is still evolving, I wonder how long the wasp can afford to sustain their choice of relaxed parenting, because that yuppy parenting style is ineffective at large in promoting the full potential of an individual to prepare him/her to cope with an increasingly competitive world.
Also, skin color is often falsely blamed for race discrimination by the public who fail to recognize that skin color is nothing more than a group label to tell which group is better off in a society. Discrimination comes in all forms, but often is based on the socioeconomic status which one individual/group is associated with. This is evident in many monoracial European countries where discrimination is abundant between the rich and poor but no civil rights movement ever evolved as here in the US because the societal inequality is within the same race. Believe me, if one day the social ladder in the US flipped with blacks like you at the upper end, the whites will feel being discriminated against.
By good places, I mean Ivy league and nothing less than the top 5 colleges. Mainly only WASP children who I studied with had relaxed parenting, as they dont suffer discrimination. Everyone else myself included grafted to get to the top.
Your "top five colleges" will undergo some significant changes in the coming five years or so. These changes are part of the same matrix involving the charter schools thing. Suffice to say - going to college ? avoid places where there is a growing administration squatting on an exploited (and increasingly angry) faculty.
Columbia will always be in the right direction, MIT I think as well, but there are some decisions being made right now and some places formerly "eh" will rise to the top and others will sink. There will be surprises. People should not look to historical reputations but at what is actually going on in given institutions right now.
It isn't even hard to predict who will be top or bottom if you are in this world. The places involved in "value extraction" will sink. Unfortunately, their price tags will not.
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