Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I hate to say this, but here's the bottom line: there are two types of jobs out there-budget-driven jobs and profit-driven jobs. Cops, Fireman and Teachers all perform an invaluable service for the rest of use, for which I am grateful. However, the fact is the service they provide is only "worth" what the government can afford to pay them by taking a little of the top of those who work in profit-driven jobs. The latter will always make more, and there's just no way around that. While I don't think those workers are paid enough, they're not ever going to be paid more than the budget will allow. Sure there is wiggle room in there, but it's just always going to be that way. If you want to get paid more, get out of a budget-driven job.
That is probably the best tactfully written post that addresses this thread without insulting police officers, firefighters and teachers. Thank you.
I hate to say this, but here's the bottom line: there are two types of jobs out there-budget-driven jobs and profit-driven jobs. Cops, Fireman and Teachers all perform an invaluable service for the rest of use, for which I am grateful. However, the fact is the service they provide is only "worth" what the government can afford to pay them by taking a little of the top of those who work in profit-driven jobs. The latter will always make more, and there's just no way around that. While I don't think those workers are paid enough, they're not ever going to be paid more than the budget will allow. Sure there is wiggle room in there, but it's just always going to be that way. If you want to get paid more, get out of a budget-driven job.
The problem is that OTHER govt's, other Counties, Towns, States and the Feds pay their Law Enforcement people a competitive wage, and the NYPD does NOT. It's foolish to think you can staff a police dept with qualified applcants for 60K when every other PD in our area is paying 75K-95K. This is why the NYPD has had to lower it's physical, academic and character standards.
Who is going to staff the Detective Bureau in yrs to come? LOWERED academic standards do not bode well for what kind of cops will be available to assign to the Precinct Detective Squads. Who's going to interview the city's rape victims, child abuse victims? Who's going to investigate the kidnappings (it actually happens more than you think in NYC), robbery patterns, muredrs...AND be able to work with the DA's office to secure a conviction?
Do you think LOWERED academic standards get you people with those abilities?
You get what you pay for. And if everyone else is paying 75K+ for their cop talent and you're paying 60K for your talent, then you will end up with an inferior organization. PLEASE remember this the next time you feel like complaining about police corruption or incompetence in the NYPD. After all, this is the business model many here have chosen for their police dept.
97% of the world can't make a decent living doing what they want, where they want. This is not unique to NYPD...gimme a break. Enough with the rhetoric and emotions...the reality is that they make a far better living in the long run, especially considering the minimal education that is required, than easily 70% of NYers, and they get lifetime pension, medical, and a host of other perks that is far and away better than most people in the country! Yes they will struggle in the beginning, like everyone else, but the payoff IS THERE.
The payoff is there???? LOL LOL LOL LOL
Then why do so many young people quit the NYPD LONG before they reach 5 yrs? If 60K top pay is a payoff, then what is the 75K-95K that the other PD's in our area pay? The Lottery? LOL LOL LOL
Guy, you can talk up the NYPD's pay all you want. The problem is that those who ARE ACTUALLY INTERESTED IN BECOMING COPS are absolutely turned off by the non-competitive wage and are avoiding the NYPD.
The word on the street is to stay away and join another area PD or leave the NYC area altogether to pursue a career in LE. Those John Jay job fairs generate more interest that the NYPD does, that's for sure.
No one who ever became a cop since the fall of Tammany Hall has ever become a cop because they thought they were going to become rich. They all knew there were salary limitations. But in 1986 the starting salary for Nassau County & the State Police was lower than the NYPD and topped out at about $5,000 higher. The NYPD's salaries just have not kept up with the competition.
Texags, your point is accurate, except that over the years the city has cried poverty when city hall could have increased its budget and allowed the police salary to become more competitive. Now, the disparity between the NYPD salary and all of the surrounding municipalities (actually across the nation except for the southeast) has become so wide that the NYC police is having a difficult time finding quality applicants and more importantly, retaining those applicants that the city has spent over a hundred thousand dollars to equip & train.
One of the biggest obstacles in closing the gap in salaries is the city's practice of pattern bargaining. The PBA is trying to break the parity that exists between police salary and all of the other uniformed agencies & teachers. They want to get the gains on their own merits and not be anchored down by the argument that if we increase the PD salary then we have to give the equivalent to the rest of the municipal workforce.
We shall see how the PBA fares with this argument very soon according to this article:
Panel Decision Expected Soon On Police Salaries - April 18, 2008 - The New York Sun (http://www2.nysun.com/article/74943 - broken link)
so yes they struggle in the beginning..but tell me where someone who is 20 years old, with an AA from Brooklyn Community College will make $40,000 their first year, and continue going up from there, and after 20 years (at the age of 40!!!) can retire with lifetime medical, a lifetime pension of $5,000++ a month (in todays dollars), and still have the rest of their lives to do whatever they please!!!
Don't sound so bad to me!
Where do you get 40K for a first yr NYPD cop? Are you counting OT? Night Differential? OK. then here goes the comparison:
EVERY OTHER POLICE DEPARTMENT IN OUR AREA pays over 40K to thier first yr cops!!! Once you add in the same amount of OT and NIght Diff. IT IS EVEN HIGHER THAN 40K!
Does that answer your Q?
How about this: You can leave the NYC area, start at around 40K+ in your first yr AND live someplace wher a 2000 sq. ft. house costs about 200K. Also, those places have top pays comparable to the NYPD's 60K BUT THE COST OF LIVING IS SO LOW that it's like making 80K in NYC.
In case you haven't noticed, EVERY police dept. in this country is looking for recruits. NYC is coming to the competition with an inadequate top salary and they are coming up shorter than just about everyone else.
I think the point has been made that other areas pay more than NYC. We get it. However, if you believe that somehow NYC was getting the "cream of the crop" prior to lowering wages for new recruits ( for ONLY 6 months) you are just full of it. NYC was NEVER getting the cream of the crop...they are just NOW increasing standards to a measly 60 credits of College...the prior 30 years before that all you needed was a GED and the ability to read. Who considers a GED "cream of the crop'??!!!! Let's be serious here and stop the baseless hype.
Furthermore, the department is planning on SHRINKING in 2009..yes they are looking to decrease the number of police officers...so although they are getting SLIGHTLY less applicants, it is moot, as they are looking to cut heads anyway. And yes, I don't doubt DC, Trenton, and whatever place pays cops more...did you also notice that it is cheaper to live there too? You can get a 3,000 house for with 3 car garage for $200,000 and send your kids to a good public school....so why is ANYONE still in NYC?
Because people WANT to be here, they put up with the BS, the low pay on MANY jobs including civil service, the crappy apts, the traffic, the crappy people, and everything else. The fact remains that the average HOUSEHOLD salary in NYC is $42,000....which is approximately what a SINGLE cop earn with O/T THEIR FIRST YEAR, and it goes up from there. So how is that cops supposedly can't make it YET the average person DOES?
I speak of reality....everyone else is speaking hype and regurgitating what they hear/read without THINKING. And since baylover enjoys posting articles...I will take an important line from it:
"While the PBA has criticized the current starting salary for rookies, it has argued that the key to retaining police officers is a competitive salary for veteran officers." What doe this statement tell us? The PBA ITSELF knows the answer to the NYPDs problem, to pay HIGHER salaries to senior guys at the expense of new recruits! They chose that route, and now are making sure to cast blame on the world for the supposed lack of recruits!
They got a raise for the senior guys amounting to a 10% increase of $100 MILLION in salary and benefits, versus the 0 and 3% they would have gotten. And NOW through hype and fear mongering, they are trying to get MORE money for new recruits becuase of the plan that THEY SUPPORTED is supposedly causing a "crisis." Bait and switch....nothing more than that...and everyone buys into the hype.
point being like many other jobs it's not guaranteed therefore you can't walk into another job claiming you make XX a year with it included. nor should it be compared to someone who works 35 or 40 hours with a 42k base.
It is not guaranteed but it IS part of their compensation, whereas most people do NOT have even the option to work O/T. The police dept advertises the salary AND the opportunity for a broad variety of O/T (not just doing foot patrols)...in case you did not notice...there are TONS of parades, and lets not forget the Pope is in town....etc.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
