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Most people just choose to live amongst their own group. That's why you see so many threads on this forum about black professionals wondering where the other black professionals are .
This is because they wish to avoid running into that subtle racism, which is hard to pin point, but nonetheless exists. Racism isn't just the in your face blind bigotry that some might imagine it to be.
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If someone , of any race , is walking around in public smoking weed , no?
Blacks are more likely to be stopped, and more likely to be arrested if there is cause, and even if there is no cause. So can you prove that blacks are more likely to be OPENLY smoking weed than a white hipster? I don't think so.
A black man walking with an UNOPEN beer can may be arrested. A group of whites engaged in public binge drinking might be ignored, and almost never arrested.
Middle class blacks don't have the protection that social class brings that whites have, unless their name is Winfrey or Obama. Black male professionals know that encounters with a police man at night can result in the same level of treatment as that meted out to a low income black.
There is a problem in how law enforcement treats blacks (regardless of class) when compared to whites, and to pretend otherwise is pure foolishness in light of every thing that we have seen in recent months.
I also suggest that people must stop telling others how their shoes fit, unless they have walked in their shoes. Few white men know the lives of black men and how institutions treat them, so they really ought to come off from the pulpit.
Either ignore the topic, or learn to listen to those who have experiences different to yours.
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I haven't posted in a while but still occasionally read the posts and comments. There is an obsession on this site and in the country with race. I am responding to your post , NYWritedude , because we seem to be on opposite sides politically but your posts are intelligent so I'm going to throw this out there ...
I don't see it as a race issue regarding what you posted above. For someone like me , a right winger , we are the political side that is demonized constantly for wanting to "control" people. Ironically it's the political left that want the federal government involved in all aspects of peoples lives. They want some law or other passed for every reason they hold dear. The left screams , rants and raves about first amendment free speech rights when it's related to pornography or some left wing cause , yet they get incensed and want to shut that same free speech down when right wingers express some point of view they don't like , deriding it as 'hate' speech or some other nonsense.
In regard to the above - 'Street' kids (I'm assume YOU mean minorities) getting arrested for weed while rich white kids don't for doing coke ... here's a thought ... Maybe what the real problem is , at least it is to me , is many people don't like having things such as drug use , done in their faces. If some 'rich white kid' (or frankly anybody of any race) is doing coke , smoking pot , whatever , somewhere in private , others aren't affected by it directly. Out of sight , out of mind.
If someone , of any race , is walking around in public smoking weed , they are subjecting people around them to the smell and the smoke. Often , and I see this even in my own neighborhood of Bay Ridge , usually whoever is smoking weed outside has this 'f-ck you' attitude and body language , like 'what are you going to do about it.'
If someone wants to engage in nasty , unhealthy , illegal things , things that hard working people just trying to get by and live their lives in peace don't want to be subject to , things like loitering in front of apartment buildings smoking weed , or any other so called 'quality of life' offense - then go do those things where other people can't see them or be subject to them.
I don't care AT ALL if someone chooses to do drugs in private. Few people do. I don't want to come home and be subjected to seeing it on the corner , in front of my building , in the halls , on the elevator , etc.
If kids (of any race) in the suburbs - for example - go out in the woods behind the school , where the 'cool kids' hang out , and smoke pot , or people (any race) do coke privately inside their own apartment - they aren't bothering anybody.
A 'street' kid (again - any race) hanging on the corner , on the subway , anywhere in public view , smoking weed , playing 'hard a-s' , with the attitude of "I'm gonna do it , you can't stop me , f-ck you" is what gets under the skin of a people , especially the police , and it's THAT reason , NOT RACISM , that is the root cause of them JUSTIFIABLY getting hassled.
If the 'Progressive' mayor and his minions in City Hall really want to help 'minorities' they should do it by spending money for sports programs or educational after school activities (chess , computers , etc.) where people can develop their bodies and/or minds and do something positive with themselves.
Decriminalizing weed and spending public money to bail defendants out of jail is typical of the way 'progressives' think they are 'helping' minorities. In reality , they are encouraging unhealthy behavior , and forcing the people who live with them to be subject to the low standard of living that being surrounded by people who live by doing whatever they want to do , everyone else be damned , brings about.
A true racist would love to see an end to 'minorities' being locked up for anything. A person of that mindset would like nothing better than to keep those people ON the street , in 'ghettos' , killing themselves and each other until they were all gone.
A person who is NOT racist but simply wants to live in peace and not be subject to "quality of life" offenses around them where they live and work , but who supports using public and private money so that people of all races and backgrounds can better themselves , may not be considered 'politically correct' in the current day and age , but is actually on the right track , IMHO.
Racism should not be used as the excuse that is , when police arrest and hassle people doing things , however minor they may be , that cause the majority of the public at large to suffer. If I were a minority working stiff (I'm a white working stiff - any difference???) - I would appreciate the police keeping my neighborhood clean of drunks , drug users , people who **** in the hallway , etc. just the SAME way I appreciate it as a white person when I see a white person in my neighborhood get hassled for doing the same thing. And yes - it does happen - just the other day I saw a white teenage kid get a ticket when cops in a black Crown Vic with tinted windows rolled up on him for skateboarding on the sidewalk. It's not only white cops vs. the minorities - it's just that THAT narrative works best in the media.
Final thought : It's ironic to me how furious so many people get at the police for enforcing so called 'quality of life' laws. It's those same police that actually protect these same people from the vigilante justice that many people who are fed up with the nonsense would be happy to hand out , and are only stopped because they don't want to : Deal with the police / criminal justice system / jail. The same police that are considered to be 'harrassing' people over 'minor' things are the same police protecting these same offenders , be it major or minor offenses , from getting their faces broken by otherwise decent people who are fed up but put up with the crap they do ONLY because they don't want to get arrested and deal with the system.
How ironic , no?
Again I disagree. Stop and frisk (which has now been STOPPED by de Blasio's settlement of lawsuit against the city) would have cops search the bags and persons of poor street kids. If they were found to have weed they were busted.
I personally have done cocaine with rich white street kids (my fellow Ivy Leaguers) in bars and it would have been pretty obvious to anyone in the bar what was going on. But of course the NYPD isn't going to after rich college students, tourists, and others as they do cocaine.
Btw, white kids smoke weed too. They just aren't arrested for it.
Arresting poor kids for weed or other drugs DOES NOT stop them from doing drugs. It gives them a criminal record. So they won't be working and they will be on welfare.
Cigarettes are a drug and dangerous, as are many prescription drugs (also abused), as is alcohol. Only prohibition doesn't work. Speaking of other socioeconomic issues, lots of rich white kids take pop pills. I've done that with them (in the bar so it was fairly public).
All these drugs are used in downtown bars and the wild and unruly rich white kids are noisy in the streets. But they are an essential part of NYC's economy.
So yes, anyone interested in helping minorities will drop the idiotic paternalism and legalize marijuana. Adults as long as they are not committing crimes such as robbery, rape, or murder do not need parental figures. Everyone knows the risk of what they are doing when they take drugs, and that includes ALCOHOL.
Btw I drink heavy caffeinated drinks (another legal drug). I really hate the false morality pushed by the conservatives when nearly everyone has done or does SOME sort of DRUG.
This is one of the best comments I read and derails the liberal ideology of NyWriterdude. I have to agree with you on this. Sad thing is that in another thread I was debating against liberalism and it's failures, and NyWriterdude was attacking me on how benefited from liberalism. In truth only those with money benefit from liberalism. Now can rest easy, I had to rep you on this.
You have benefited from liberalism. Just you being in the country (liberals allowed people in from the third world with the reforms to immigration post civil rights) is an example of how you benefited from liberalism.
You attended a state school, and likely got financial aid.
For that matter, the liberals have signed the civil rights law into being and they are taking actions to end police abuses.
Blacks are more likely to be stopped, and more likely to be arrested if there is cause, and even if there is no cause. So can you prove that blacks are more likely to be OPENLY smoking weed than a white hipster? I don't think so.
A black man walking with an UNOPEN beer can may be arrested. A group of whites engaged in public binge drinking might be ignored, and almost never arrested.
Middle class blacks don't have the protection that social class brings that whites have, unless their name is Winfrey or Obama. Black male professionals know that encounters with a police man at night can result in the same level of treatment as that meted out to a low income black.
There is a problem in how law enforcement treats blacks (regardless of class) when compared to whites, and to pretend otherwise is pure foolishness in light of every thing that we have seen in recent months.
I also suggest that people must stop telling others how their shoes fit, unless they have walked in their shoes. Few white men know the lives of black men and how institutions treat them, so they really ought to come off from the pulpit.
Either ignore the topic, or learn to listen to those who have experiences different to yours.
Agreed. It's bizarre that people declare themselves experts on topics that they have no firsthand experience with.
I live in upper Manhattan. If I were to carry an unopened beer can around, I could be arrested. I stopped drinking but when I used to drink and do drugs I always did it downtown. So I had no problems ONLY because I was partying with wealthy whites and the cops are not going to bother white partiers downtown.
For that matter, the liberals have signed the civil rights law into being and they are taking actions to end police abuses.
The problem that BronxGuyanese has is his inability to understand that the gap between liberal and conservative ideologies was not in the 60s, defined by party affiliation, but by geography.
In the North both the GOP and the Democrats were liberal. In the South the GOP was usually MORE liberal than was the Democratic party. Indeed many actions that conservatives now lambaste (affirmative action, and environmental laws) were enacted by Nixon.
Some of NYC's segregation is by choice (though yes, redlining, steering and blockbusting did play a pivotal role in previous decades as others have mentioned)
Queens is a perfect example of this. Cambria Heights, Laurelton and Rosedale are over 90% black and the median household income there is MUCH higher than the city average THEREFORE most of these residents could easily afford to live in most other parts of the city (including white areas) BUT they choose not to.
Most people just choose to live amongst their own group. That's why you see so many threads on this forum about black professionals wondering where the other black professionals are Or Jews wondering about where other Jewish areas are OR people asking if Puerto Ricans still live in XYZ location.
Nobody wants to be the outcast or the token.
For example: I certainly wouldn't want to be the only black person in Howard Beach, and i'm sure someone in Howard Beach wouldn't want to be the only Italian in Corona or ENY.
Proof? Posts on City Data don't necessarily represent how most people feel or interact.
Also white college students, white recent graduates, white gays, and white artists and certain other sub-groups of whites often have no choice but to live in predominately Black or Hispanic neighborhoods like Bedstuy, Bushwick, Upper Manhattan, Jackson Heights, Corona, etc. Some whites even move to the Bronx.
The true reality is you will LIVE where you can AFFORD.
And yes there are Blacks and Hispanics who live in Manhattan below 96th Street. They may not be rhe majority, but they are there.
Agreed. It's bizarre that people declare themselves experts on topics that they have no firsthand experience with.
I live in upper Manhattan. If I were to carry an unopened beer can around, I could be arrested. I stopped drinking but when I used to drink and do drugs I always did it downtown. So I had no problems ONLY because I was partying with wealthy whites and the cops are not going to bother white partiers downtown.
In fact when I came to NYC I was warned NOT to have even a soda in a paper bag, as that could trigger a search. When a cop cannot find reason to arrest (no drugs, or weapons) he then often tries to provoke a reaction. Less educated people often fall into that trap and then are arrested for "resisting arrest".
It is the very rare white person who understands this fact. I don't blame them for their lack of understanding, as this doesn't impact them. I blame them for NOT listening to others when they tell them what their realities are.
There is a reason why your involvement with drugs/binge drinking was with your white friends. Even black COLLEGE educated people wouldn't have done this if it was among a group of other college educated blacks, as any group of young blacks triggers scrutiny. when I went downtown with groups of black MBAs, lawyers, etc., we were model citizens.
There is something about a group of black men which panics many. Even when the black men are wearing suits.
In fact when I came to NYC I was warned NOT to have even a soda in a paper bag, as that could trigger a search. When a cop cannot find reason to arrest (no drugs, or weapons) he then often tries to provoke a reaction. Less educated people often fall into that trap and then are arrested for "resisting arrest".
It is the very rare white person who understands this fact. I don't blame them for their lack of understanding, as this doesn't impact them. I blame them for NOT listening to others when they tell them what their realities are.
There is a reason why your involvement with drugs/binge drinking was with your white friends. Even black COLLEGE educated people wouldn't have done this if it was among a group of other college educated blacks, as any group of young blacks triggers scrutiny. when I went downtown with groups of black MBAs, lawyers, etc., we were model citizens.
There is something about a group of black men which panics many. Even when the black men are wearing suits.
You are right. My Black and Hispanic college educated friends, if they have money also go out drinking and doing drugs DOWNTOWN for the same reasons I used to.
I do know a lot of whites who are extremely critical of the police. Them being gay is a part of it. Many gay establishments have been loathed by their communities and the police certainly shut down many of them during the Giuliani and Bloomberg eras. And Bloomberg era gentrification is killing off the remaining gay bars. In 5 years it would not surprised me if all the gay bars in the East and West Village are all CLOSED.
You have other groups of whites beyond gays who have issues with marginalization. They don't all feel the same way or have the same attitudes with the cops.
A lot of the younger whites have different attitudes as well, so you also have generational gaps.
You have benefited from liberalism. Just you being in the country (liberals allowed people in from the third world with the reforms to immigration post civil rights) is an example of how you benefited from liberalism.
You attended a state school, and likely got financial aid.
For that matter, the liberals have signed the civil rights law into being and they are taking actions to end police abuses.
I got a federal grant the rest of Americans who seek higher learning, but the rest I paid out of my own pocket. Liberals has nothing to do with changing this country. It's all about reformers and bipartisanship. Also I'm not an immigrant, and I also have deep American roots from evacuation day in 1783, to underground railroad going to Canada for freedom that neither South or North provided and then migrating to a British colony in South America where brits needed cane cutters and more economic freedom.
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