Graduating Mechanical Engineer - Is it worth it to live in New York City? (Florida: apartment, rent)

[dashkkam]

Hi everyone,

So I was born and raised in Manhattan (more specifically Washington Heights). My mom still lives there.

I'm graduating college next May with a mechanical engineering degree from a school hundreds of miles away from the city.

I started my job search a month ago. (I should have started in September but oh well ) I already have decent grades, lots of internship experience and I go to a good school, so I don't think I'll have issues finding a job. I have no offers yet but two second-round interviews with major companies in the South and in the Midwest. The starting salary for both of these positions will be around $65k. The median rent in both places is only $600 per month. I have no student loans

I'm not picky about the type of work and the location. The big unknowns are, where will I get the job offer(s) and how much will I get paid

The thing is, my mom is pressuring me to stay close to her. My question is, is it even worth it to try to find to find a job in or near New York City? What are your thoughts, and what would you do if you were in my situation?

Pros of NYC / Cons of other places
1. Pay minimal expenses if I live with my mom vs. paying all rental, utilities, and food expenses by myself
2. Mom would greatly appreciate the help with expenses
3. Mom would iron my clothes, do laundry, and cook better food than I could make myself.
4. Have lots of family and support systems in case of emergency
5. NYC is a cool place with lots of stuff to do
6. No car/insurance expenses. I can sell my car and just use my mom's car whenever I want to drive somewhere
7. No furniture expenses
8. Milder weather compared to the rainstorms & tornados of the South and Midwest
9. It's easier to meet young people like me. (I like women )

Pros of other places / Cons of NYC
1. Mom is low-income and is bad with money. "Helping" her with expenses will be a waste anyway
2. Dad will be getting out of jail soon and, although he's been very helpful and smart in the past, he has a toxic personality . He would be a financial drain and have a negative effect on my mental health.
2. Awful noise problem in Washington Heights . It is completely out of control. Other places would be much quieter.
3. Low quality apartment. We've had issues with mice, cockroaches, and BEDBUGS before, and they WILL come back if we don't take the appropriate precautions.
4. As a future young professional, I'm not sure if I want to associate with the type of people living in Washington Heights.
5. Commute times would be 30 minutes to 1 hour one way standing in a crowded train, vs. 5-10 minutes driving. I like driving (when there's no traffic).
6. It's much more difficult to buy property near NYC, and if I bought property near here, I would be taxed to death anyway . I could save half my income and buy property within 1-2 years somewhere else.
7. When I buy a house, I would like to own a weapon to defend myself and my property. The governments of NY, NJ, and CT won't allow that and would rather have me be victimized by some thugs.
8. NYC jobs are more competitive with longer work hours. Mechanical Engineering is not strong in NYC compared to finance and tech. Engineering is much stronger in low cost of living locations.
9. I would not be fully taking advantage of career opportunities by limiting myself to the NYC area.
10. I would feel like a loser living with mom . I'm a naturally independent person. I don't need her help.
11. I'm not a very social person anyway and I would not take full advantage of what NYC has to offer.
12. In NYC I would be a small fish in a big pond, whereas somewhere else I would be a big fish in a small pond.
13. Southerners are much nicer than New Yorkers. In my experience, the only people worse than New Yorkers are Seattleites. I have no experience with Midwesterners.

Obviously I'm leaning towards ditching NYC altogether and starting life somewhere else, but I was wondering what you guys think.

[Javawood]

You don't seem like an NYC person. I've also found that work ethic is the same in NYC as it was in Chicago. I don't know about the rest of the Midwest. I personally love NYC and try to get everyone to visit, but I've come to the realization in the past 5 years that not everyone is like me and so I threw out the ideal that all my friends should 'live' in NYC haha.

Where do you think you would enjoy life more? More importantly, where would you be able to deal with the detriments the easiest? You don't necessarily have to live with your family for instance, but you sound like you'd rather drive to work and the like. Your family also sounds toxic to your financial health and a few other things which you list that make it seem like you don't really want to be in a city at all. You don't -need- a gun to protect your house for instance, my family has had a house for 20+ years and has not had a break in, even in the old dirty 80s when Chicago's crime rate was really terrible. Your career would propel very fast here, but is that really what you want?

Also be wary of the passive aggressiveness that seems to permeate in a good chunk of the US. I sometimes can't stand the West Coast and Midwest because of this. Can't say the same about the South, I don't have enough experience of it outside my family in Florida and being in Atlanta, Georgia a few times.

[dashkkam]

I grew up in Washington Heights with basically all of the negatives of the city and few of the positives. I place a high value on my mental health and financial well-being, because I was exposed to exactly the opposite environment growing up. Although I grew up in NYC, I've been lucky enough to experience a few different places around the country, and I realized that I felt best when I was saving a huge chunk of my pay and not throwing away half of it on rent. It also helped a lot when I put a few hundred miles between me and my family after high school.

If I was sitting on a huge chunk of money, or if my salary was 200k per year, then obviously I would live in New York, and life would be better. But I'm not in that position and the chances of getting there are pretty low. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to take my chances trying to make it big in New York, knowing that most people don't make it big, and knowing that it's much easier to create a stress-free life in some random town in the middle of the country. I can always visit a really big city on a weekend if I really want to.

I really want to own property and I strongly feel that property ownership will be the easiest path to financial independence. I've already interned in places where the median home value was ~$110k, median rents were ~$600 and the entry-level engineering salaries were ~$60k.

My main question was, knowing that I can live with my mom for cheap in NYC in a crappy apartment, should I attempt to start my career here? I don't think I would enjoy it at all, but are there really opportunities in NYC that are worth pursuing and sticking around for, for a few years?

Also - I actually have a brother who was able to "propel" his career pretty quickly in NYC. He's not even 30 yet and he's making almost $200k. But after taking a closer look at his financials, he does lose a huge portion of his income to tax, he's paying way more than he should on his mortgage, and it takes him 1 hour to get to work every day. Even if I had that kind of opportunity, I'm not sure if I want to deal with that on a daily basis for decades. After he's done paying for his mortgage, he still has to pay about 700 a month in property tax. Can you imagine what would happen if the economy tanked like it did in 2008 and he's no longer making that 200k? That would be terrible. The rewards are high but the risks are high too.

As far as the passive-aggressiveness goes, I've heard that people in the South are only polite to your face, but I personally haven't gotten any weird vibes from the people I've met here in the South. When I was in Seattle, I definitely got that feeling and I've gotten treated pretty rudely by coworkers just for asking simple questions about the area. I also experienced casual racism in the workplace when I told them about my background and the neighborhood I grew up in. It's funny how I experienced more racism in 3 months in Seattle than I did in 3 years in the South.

Another weird thing was that I was driving at the speed of traffic in the right lane and someone gave me the finger for absolutely no reason. I've driven in NYC and I've driven across the entire damn country and that was the first time I got the finger! Ha, maybe it was because of my license plates???

[Henna]

You have nothing to lose by starting your career elsewhere. You can work for a few years and then if you want to think about returning to NYC, you start your job search from wherever you are.

I don't see any reason for you to stay in NYC given the toxic environment you describe, your wishes for cheaper living space, and your love for driving. Also, it sounds like your job offer will not be in NYC, so at this point you really need to go where your job offer is. It makes no sense to move back to a negative situation just hoping you get an offer (meanwhile turning down the offers you do have).

[dun]

Pros (9) vs Cons (13)

u already know the answer OP. y do u want us to convince u to stay? u'll be livin in a disgusting building, in a crappy neighborhood, with loud troublesome animals around u left and right, with two incompetent parents. its evident your mom wants to leech off of u. what do u think your father is going to do when he gets out? find a well payin job and support his son for the time he's missed with him? hah! he's going to be selling drugs to get by while leechin off of you. sorry OP, but your parents are losers and you arent. u have the opportunity to get out so GET OUT. if u want to support your parents, do it from afar. im not going to tell u what to do with your money but make sure u set a strict budget for your future charity work

[fieldm]

Dont move back under for your situation. Lie to your mom and tell her you can't find a job In NYC that's better than saying that you don't want to be around your family in NYC living in the ghetto

[macnyc2003]

Is your prosperous brother also living at home and helping out with expenses?

Or did he after he graduated?

I'm just a stranger to you, but I think you should head for the hills and get away from your family. You don't owe them anything, even though they might try to guilt you into staying.

We each get one life to live, and sometimes it's shorter than we would like. You should live your best life and not worry about those who haven't managed to do that. Even if they are your parents.

[Wells5]

Congratulations on getting your B.S.M.E. degree. By the way, do you know what percentage of your fellow M.E. majors that started with you actually finished?

Location for your entry level job should be a secondary consideration. Contrary to the "STEM" propaganda coming from the political class, the number of M.E. jobs has gone down owing to the closure and "offshoring" of American manufacturing companies. See below.

MIT: With Loss Of Manufacturing The U.S. Innovation Engine Is No Longer Working

Your main considerations should be the the viability of the company and the potential for advancement. If you were offered a job at Boeing way out in Seattle, would you turn it down?

[bullandre]

I would move to the South or the DMV area. It's too expensive to own a home here and we know that QOL isn't the best.

[jad2k]

I love NYC but reading your situation, you should not move back! Your situation here will only serve to pull you down. Keep moving forward and building the life you are working hard to achieve. Don't feel guilty about your parents and if they really do need your support, you can always send money home (but don't let them guilt you into leaching more that you can afford if you have other goals like buying a home, etc).