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Thank you for the info. I knew that some of TC was an apartment hotel, and the lack of kitchen is actually a big plus for me personally (a hot plate is adequate, I'd rather use every bit of space for storage, and have actually been using my present kitchen oven for storage) and I do not need more than 300 sq ft, but am still wondering if there is anything else, apart from the size, that is lowering prices of these units. I remember that in the early 1990s (when I didn't have money to buy any property yet) there was some issue due to which some TC units were essentially given away, ie, sold for like $10,000. The prices recovered toward the normal range, but have always stayed just below the lower limit of everything else in Manhattan. What was that issue, were there liens for some unpaid taxes or dues, or did the co-ops have some enormous debt, or what was it that happened in the 1990s? How did it (and did it ever) get resolved?
Ok, found it.
For those who forgot (or weren't around then) there was a recession in late 1980's which was touched off by Black Monday (October 19, 1987). Bad economic times spread though various sectors of USA and New York economies. In particular a good number of savings and loan banks found themselves insolvent (or near) thanks to bad real estate and other loans.
Crossland Savings held some or all of the Tudor City real estate portfolio of Time Equities. After old Crossland savings bank was shut down, feds started up another at once which not only received both bad and good assets, but also began selling off the former. This included unsold shares in Tudor City apartments.
Included in this action were also shares/units in:
415 Central Park West
325 West 45th Street
221 West 82nd Street
202-214 West 85th Street
4-10 West 101st Street
Of them all am thinking those who bought at 415 CPW got themselves a great deal.
Furthermore it does not look as if anyone got a TC apartment for $3k to $10k:
" Prices achieved at the auction ranged from $239,000 for a classic six-room, 14th-floor apartment at 221-223 West 82nd Street, to $15,500 for a three-room unit at 4-10 West 101st Street. At the more typical price levels, a six-room apartment at 415 Central Park West brought $164,800, while a studio in Tudor City sold for $70,000. "
These units are severly outdated but the architectural buff in me likes that they have been able to be preserved so well. The layouts are quirky though. In the video I posted, the apartment shown does not have access to the bathroom from a common area or hallway of the apartment. You can only enter the bathroom by going through the master bedroom.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
These units are severly outdated but the architectural buff in me likes that they have been able to be preserved so well. The layouts are quirky though. In the video I posted, the apartment shown does not have access to the bathroom from a common area or hallway of the apartment. You can only enter the bathroom by going through the master bedroom.
Not unusual for many older apartments, and quite a few new (built say after 1960's or whatever).
Idea being it is a one bedroom and the person or persons living in unit will share that room and thus be the only ones using the bathroom.
Of course if the living/dining area is converted into or used as a bedroom, then that is going to create issues.
If you're entertaining then better tidy up the bedroom, hide valuables and so forth because people who need to use the bathroom will be going through there....
Aside from the true "family" sized units a majority of TC apartments in both the residential hotel and apartment buildings were geared for singles or maybe couples. Hence their small to minuscule sizes, and odd layouts.
Not unusual for many older apartments, and quite a few new (built say after 1960's or whatever).
Idea being it is a one bedroom and the person or persons living in unit will share that room and thus be the only ones using the bathroom.
Of course if the living/dining area is converted into or used as a bedroom, then that is going to create issues.
If you're entertaining then better tidy up the bedroom, hide valuables and so forth because people who need to use the bathroom will be going through there....
Aside from the true "family" sized units a majority of TC apartments in both the residential hotel and apartment buildings were geared for singles or maybe couples. Hence their small to minuscule sizes, and odd layouts.
Not unusual for many older apartments, and quite a few new (built say after 1960's or whatever).
Idea being it is a one bedroom and the person or persons living in unit will share that room and thus be the only ones using the bathroom.
Of course if the living/dining area is converted into or used as a bedroom, then that is going to create issues.
If you're entertaining then better tidy up the bedroom, hide valuables and so forth because people who need to use the bathroom will be going through there....
Aside from the true "family" sized units a majority of TC apartments in both the residential hotel and apartment buildings were geared for singles or maybe couples. Hence their small to minuscule sizes, and odd layouts.
This is true
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Tudor City buildings were actually apartment hotels. I guess the zoning back then allowed for higher buildings for hotels. That’s why the apartments didn’t have kitchens originally, just butlers’ pantries.
I believe each building is a separate co-op.
I am bringing up Tudor City again because I want to ask whether anyone might know why the prices of small units are dropping. The type of unit that could be found for $315k one year ago now can be found for $279k. That is a small drop for a co-op in Manhattan, but it is greater than 5%. Are they in some kind of financial trouble again? Or everybody wants a full kitchen nowadays?
Update: I just looked again on Zillow, and there is one studio for $269k! The prices seem to be dropping daily. This is almost equal to 2009, when their lowest prices were $250k. What is going on?
I am bringing up Tudor City again because I want to ask whether anyone might know why the prices of small units are dropping. The type of unit that could be found for $315k one year ago now can be found for $279k. That is a small drop for a co-op in Manhattan, but it is greater than 5%. Are they in some kind of financial trouble again? Or everybody wants a full kitchen nowadays?
Update: I just looked again on Zillow, and there is one studio for $269k! The prices seem to be dropping daily. This is almost equal to 2009, when their lowest prices were $250k. What is going on?
Questions have been largely answered already in this thread.
TC is filled with old and outdated units, everything about them is from another era. There is so much new construction in NYC atm that buying one of those ancient apartments and then spending $$$$ to upgrade/renovate doesn't make much sense.
This is even more true for those original "effiency" studio and small one bedroom apartments. Floor plans and everything else about those apartments is just not what market wants today.
Even this nicely renovated one bedroom didn't move and was taken off market:
This speaks to something true across entire NYC RE market atm, things that are priced correctly will move, if they aren't no one is taking the bait.
Keep in mind TC has some steep maintenance fees for what those buildings are, and a special assessment is tacked on through 2023 or as well.
Overall as we discussed previously in this thread TC is an old complex with lots of deferred and other maintenance issues, someone has to pay for that work and it that is where special assessments pop up.
Questions have been largely answered already in this thread.
TC is filled with old and outdated units, everything about them is from another era. There is so much new construction in NYC atm that buying one of those ancient apartments and then spending $$$$ to upgrade/renovate doesn't make much sense.
This is even more true for those original "effiency" studio and small one bedroom apartments. Floor plans and everything else about those apartments is just not what market wants today.
Even this nicely renovated one bedroom didn't move and was taken off market:
This speaks to something true across entire NYC RE market atm, things that are priced correctly will move, if they aren't no one is taking the bait.
Keep in mind TC has some steep maintenance fees for what those buildings are, and a special assessment is tacked on through 2023 or as well.
Overall as we discussed previously in this thread TC is an old complex with lots of deferred and other maintenance issues, someone has to pay for that work and it that is where special assessments pop up.
Seriously, thank you for that very encouraging explanation! As it is well known, I specifically love "outdated" (I have seen a couple of small TC units, and found them to be fabulous - they have everything I care about, and nothing I don't care about), and am okay with trading the high maintenance costs for a low up-front lump sum. If NYC still happens to exist in any livable form 9 years from now (when I have to make the final decision about my full-retirement whereabouts), and if I am still alive by then, TC should be it!
Seriously, thank you for that very encouraging explanation! As it is well known, I specifically love "outdated" (I have seen a couple of small TC units, and found them to be fabulous - they have everything I care about, and nothing I don't care about), and am okay with trading the high maintenance costs for a low up-front lump sum. If NYC still happens to exist in any livable form 9 years from now (when I have to make the final decision about my full-retirement whereabouts), and if I am still alive by then, TC should be it!
YW, NP!
Keep in mind with co-ops a board may put a floor under how low a unit's selling price. If they feel a number of units are going too cheap, and or just the one; a co-op board has power to stop sale by a variety of methods.
Condo boards have no such powers. Unless they choose to exercise right of first refusal they have no other option than to step aside.
Problem with studios in all co-op buildings is that banks historically didn't like financing (even where it was allowed by board) because often resale value was low. Unless someone next door or otherwise adjacent wants a studio to knock down walls and enlarge their own unit, often such small apartments are a tough sale.
Usually studios were all cash deals often bought by singles, empty nesters, for use as a pied-a-terre or to stash a mistress/boyfriend.
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