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I never denied they were in violation of the letter of the law, but at the same time, comparing this to walking into a movie theater with money in your pocket (that's kept in your pocket) is just flawed, because in this case, the payment has already been made. It's just that the proof of payment wasn't presented.
You misunderstand. I'm claiming they are not in violation of the letter of the law. The law requires payment, not compliance with MTA policies on where to stick your Metrocard.
Paying money onto a Metro Card (unlimited or otherwise) does *NOT* equal paying one's fare for boarding a subway or bus. If it did why would the MTA bother putting in turnstiles and or other fare collection methods?
The turnstiles are there to collect payment for those that don't have an unlimited and to prevent those that have no metrocard from just walking in. SBS have no fare check upon entry, just fare inspectors that check for proof if paid. With a different fare system, an unlimited metro card itself could be proof of payment, say if the unlimited got printed "Unlimited" and the dates valid.
In many European cities, the validation machines are on the buses rather than on the bus stop; the entire system functions similar to SBS in the same of board anywhere no need for the driver to check. Those with transit cards don't get a receipt, they just tap their cards against a reader. The fare inspector can tell if your card has been tapped. San Francisco has a similar system.
You misunderstand. I'm claiming they are not in violation of the letter of the law. The law requires payment, not compliance with MTA policies on where to stick your Metrocard.
But the law requires proof of payment, to the MTA having of an unlimited isn't sufficient proof only a receipt is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler
"No person shall obtain rail, subway, bus, air, taxi or any other public transportation service without payment of the lawful charge therefor. A person who shall be upon a rail transit vehicle and who shall lack proof of payment of the required fare shall be presumed to be in violation of this section."
Of course an unlimited card is clear proof, but the SBS fare inspectors don't have the means to tell if a metrocard is unlimited.
But the law requires proof of payment, to the MTA having of an unlimited isn't sufficient proof only a receipt is.
The law requires payment. It says not having proof of payment on rail gives a presumption of violation. Rail specifically, not any other form of transportation. Also, it's only a presumption, not irrebuttable proof.
I don't say that you can win the case based on minor technicalities like not having actually violated the law; there ain't no justice in New York City. But I do say you haven't actually broken the law.
Don't think many of you are grasping the difference between possessing a valid MetroCard or whatever versus paying Select Bus fare. One has nothing to do with the other.
Saying you *had* a valid method of payment but didn't for various reasons is no different than someone "having" money to pay a taxi fare but didn't for whatever reason.
You cannot simply walk onto a regular bus without paying. All SB service has done is move the fare box from the bus to the street.
Persons have been arrested and processed for fare evasion by going through subway gates/turnstiles without paying even when they had a valid MC.
I understand your point, but mine is that I already paid for my fare - it's taken out of my paycheck every single month. The other things is that the MTA themselves realized that I had taken the subway earlier - precisely 20 minutes before I boarded the Select Bus - (as they were able to trace by the serial number on my metro card) so was entitled to a free transfer.
Why then do they bother to ask me to explain myself if they've already made their decision?
I understand your point, but mine is that I already paid for my fare - it's taken out of my paycheck every single month. The other things is that the MTA themselves realized that I had taken the subway earlier - precisely 20 minutes before I boarded the Select Bus - (as they were able to trace by the serial number on my metro card) so was entitled to a free transfer.
Why then do they bother to ask me to explain myself if they've already made their decision?
What part do you NOT understand that your did not have proof of payment for the bus you just entered!
"Customers will be issued a proof-of-payment receipt, or ticket, which they must hold during their trip to show to an inspector who may be riding the bus or at a bus stop."
You did not have that proof so you were given a ticket.
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