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Old 03-09-2016, 09:01 PM
 
1,774 posts, read 2,037,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
From my own upbringing and what I've observed from my friends, I am quite certain that the average white parents don't do the whole "tiger parent" thing. Obviously they want us to do well, and will do what they can within reason to guide us in the right direction, but my friends and I weren't required to go to the extremes mentioned in this thread. The super successful white students I know were like that because of their own personality and motivation. They didn't have to study all day long or go to prep school. The most they did was maybe go to SAT prep classes.

I only had like 1 East Asian friend, but while he did well in school, his parents (who are from Korea) didn't really do the "tiger parent" thing either.

And are you wealthy or something, bumblebyz? The vast majority of white kids I grew up with did not have that kind of money spent on them for educational purposes. Even the kids who were in honors classes.
Well that makes two of us, from my own up bringing and those of my Asian friends I'm sure none of us did that as well. And many people like to selectively forget that this whole tutoring center thing didn't exist in the 80s/90s and that didn't stop Asians from doing well academically. I'm also surprised that everyone frequents dirty Asian neighborhoods to count the types of businesses that are there I certainly don't. Maybe I should go to Corona and count if they have any and report back. Anyway I guess having no tutoring centers and the fact that all of my friends were poor growing up didn't allow us to live this tiger parent lifestyle. Even before my dad left during my early teens my parents had no time to watch over us. Like other restaurant workers he traveled far and was only home once a week during his day off that was always in the middle of the week. And I think it's not normal for Asian parents to divorce, but when they were home it was fireworks, so in a way I'm glad they divorced.

I'm not wealthy I do technology work and both me and my wife make enough for us to raise a family the way we want hopefully. Even though I'm in my 30s most of my coworker happen to much older than me and make more $$ than me due to seniority. So now you know what upper middle class people do with their money. One guy was even paying like 2k a month to lease a horse for their kids. No way in hell is anyone gonna get me to spend that kind of money on an animal.


And all this Asians only do well cause they test prep was just BS to me. Prior to the new common core standards experts (like most non-Asians trying to take a shot at the race they think only do well cause they test prep) were saying that because the exams were new and not all the materials was reflected in school work the results would show which group benefitted most from test prep when you see the large differentials in scores between the old and new exams. Last I checked Asians had the smallest differential during the first year of the new exams followed by whites. Guess which groups dropped the most. That goes to show you how memorizing questions and answers only go so far. In fact the top performing non-specialized elementary school in the whole NY state was PS 203 in Bayside with close to 70% Asian and about 30%+ reduced lunch rate. Other top, but wealthy schools have since caught up with question and answer memorization since the exam is no longer new or have opted out of the exams like much of the wealthy parts of Westchester, Brooklyn, and LI cause wealthy parents refuse to admit that their kids just aren't that smart when the school changes the exams. While the poor either drown or swim. But I'm sure with all the money they spend on raising well rounded children exams don't matter. Who needs math when you can talk your way to a promotion.

Last edited by bumblebyz; 03-09-2016 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:01 PM
 
11,445 posts, read 10,396,333 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebyz View Post
Well that makes two of us, from my own up bringing and those of my Asian friends I'm sure none of us did that as well. And many people like to selectively forget that this whole tutoring center thing didn't exist in the 80s/90s and that didn't stop Asians from doing well academically. I'm also surprised that everyone frequents dirty Asian neighborhoods to count the types of businesses that are there I certainly don't. Maybe I should go to Corona and count if they have any and report back. Anyway I guess having no tutoring centers and the fact that all of my friends were poor growing up didn't allow us to live this tiger parent lifestyle. Even before my dad left during my early teens my parents had no time to watch over us. Like other restaurant workers he traveled far and was only home once a week during his day off that was always in the middle of the week. And I think it's not normal for Asian parents to divorce, but when they were home it was fireworks, so in a way I'm glad they divorced.

I'm not wealthy I do technology work and both me and my wife make enough for us to raise a family the way we want hopefully. Even though I'm in my 30s most of my coworker happen to much older than me and make more $$ than me due to seniority. So now you know what upper middle class people do with their money. One guy was even paying like 2k a month to lease a horse for their kids. No way in hell is anyone gonna get me to spend that kind of money on an animal.


And all this Asians only do well cause they test prep was just BS to me. Prior to the new common core standards experts (like most non-Asians trying to take a shot at the race they think only do well cause they test prep) were saying that because the exams were new and not all the materials was reflected in school work the results would show which group benefitted most from test prep when you see the large differentials in scores between the old and new exams. Last I checked Asians had the smallest differential during the first year of the new exams followed by whites. Guess which groups dropped the most. That goes to show you how memorizing questions and answers only go so far. In fact the top performing non-specialized elementary school in the whole NY state was PS 203 in Bayside with close to 70% Asian and about 30%+ reduced lunch rate. Other top, but wealthy schools have since caught up with question and answer memorization since the exam is no longer new or have opted out of the exams like much of the wealthy parts of Westchester, Brooklyn, and LI cause wealthy parents refuse to admit that their kids just aren't that smart when the school changes the exams. While the poor either drown or swim. But I'm sure with all the money they spend on raising well rounded children exams don't matter. Who needs math when you can talk your way to a promotion.
So if you don't think it's test prep...are you arguing that Asians are inherently superior or something?

What it comes down to in my opinion, is how seriously a kid takes school throughout his/her K-12 years, and beyond. I think Asian kids have more social/parental pressure to do well. White kids probably don't have as much parental pressure on average, but enough to take school at least somewhat seriously.
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:27 PM
 
3,327 posts, read 4,338,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
So if you don't think it's test prep...are you arguing that Asians are inherently superior or something?

What it comes down to in my opinion, is how seriously a kid takes school throughout his/her K-12 years, and beyond. I think Asian kids have more social/parental pressure to do well. White kids probably don't have as much parental pressure on average, but enough to take school at least somewhat seriously.
Call it pressure but I prefer to call it cultural attitude.

I come form an eastern European Jewish family and education was championed for its own sake. I surmise that the same thing happens in many Asian families.

We were told to value education because being educated, in and of itself, was a virtue.

The argument was never 'education is great because you can become a doctor and make tons of money'. The argument was always, 'education is great because being an educated person is a virtue and is far better than being a dumbass'. An educated person also happens to have access to lucrative professions.

Ascribing everything to test prep doesn't make much sense. Did Jews historically do a lot of test prep? lol
It dismisses the cultural emphasis on education that is the key driver of children doing well.
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:30 PM
 
11,445 posts, read 10,396,333 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
Call it pressure but I prefer to call it cultural attitude.

I come form an eastern European Jewish family and education was championed for its own sake. I surmise that the same thing happens in many Asian families.

We were told to value education because being educated, in and of itself, was a virtue.

However, the argument was never education is great because you can become a doctor and make tons of money. The argument was always, education is great because being an educated person is a virtue is far better than being a dumbass. An educated person also happens to have access to lucrative professions.

Ascribing everything to test prep doesn't make much sense. Did Jews historically do a lot of test prep? lol
It dismisses the cultural emphasis on education that is the key driver of children doing well.
I can agree with that

And as far as black pupils, Arican immigrants are black too but their kids tend to perform pretty well in school if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 03-10-2016, 02:43 AM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,837,597 times
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Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Oh no?


So how do you account for the admission numbers at Staten Island Tech?
Those white people could be far above average.

Maybe that's why they got in.
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Old 03-10-2016, 02:48 AM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,837,597 times
Reputation: 10119
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer23 View Post
This is bull****, You are minimizing the efforts of poor Asian families at the expense of advancing a fake narrative. Many Asian families make their kids study every single day of the year and sacrifice everything for their kids to advance. Black and Hispanic community want all the accolades without any of the hard work.
It's not true that there are no Black and Hispanic parents who send their kids to after school programs or test programs. There are certain community based non profits that do that. This is rare and it's only going to benefit a few people but I had a friend who volunteers at a non profit and says that the 50 top test scorers on the SSAT get scholarships for elite private schools.

Now if you want to say the numbers of Black and Hispanic parents who have their kids tutorered is LOWER than the same number of Asian parents, I would say you're completely right. It is much lower. But there are still Black and Hispanic parents who get the tutoring, and whose kids do well in school.

The biggest problem with people on this thread is that they speak in 100% absolutes when no such things exist.
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Old 03-10-2016, 03:55 AM
 
31,656 posts, read 26,523,725 times
Reputation: 24477
*Bamn!* Right there!




ABparent Bruce_William_Smith • 2 days ago
There are illiterate dishwashers in Asian restaurants making below minimum wage who save their last penny on education for their kids. Are they not "poor enough" ? As I said there simply is no denying that many Asians value education.
And contrary to what you may expect, not every Asian goes to test prep. But a lot of Asians do work very very hard. Just because you pay someone to give you a bunch of practice tests doesn't mean you will magically succeed. It is still rolling up your sleeves and having the attention span to work through them, hours and hours of it.
If nothing else, doing well in these tests show that 1) you didn't have to prepare much because you are a genius or 2) you work your behind off to learn all the materials in which case you have proven work ethics. In any case, I do not think doing well in the test is anything to sneeze at.


Even fewer black and Hispanic students win seats at city’s elite high schools this year | Chalkbeat
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Old 03-10-2016, 04:30 AM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,837,597 times
Reputation: 10119
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
*Bamn!* Right there!




ABparent Bruce_William_Smith • 2 days ago
There are illiterate dishwashers in Asian restaurants making below minimum wage who save their last penny on education for their kids. Are they not "poor enough" ? As I said there simply is no denying that many Asians value education.
And contrary to what you may expect, not every Asian goes to test prep. But a lot of Asians do work very very hard. Just because you pay someone to give you a bunch of practice tests doesn't mean you will magically succeed. It is still rolling up your sleeves and having the attention span to work through them, hours and hours of it.
If nothing else, doing well in these tests show that 1) you didn't have to prepare much because you are a genius or 2) you work your behind off to learn all the materials in which case you have proven work ethics. In any case, I do not think doing well in the test is anything to sneeze at.


Even fewer black and Hispanic students win seats at city’s elite high schools this year | Chalkbeat
But where does having poor parents and straight As get you? Your chances of getting into a top private university are substantially lower (see the complaints on this forum for the Ivy's disproportionately turning away POOR ASIANS).

If you have to go to CUNY your employment options are LIMITED, and ditto many other state schools unless you're in a state with excellent state universities like California.

Getting into a top public school in NYC does not mean automatic admission to an EXPENSIVE top private university.

A handful of people are admitted to Ivy's on complete scholarship, this is a minority, and if you can't the overall college bound population it's such a minority it isn't even a statistic.

Also if all public school students over night became straight A students many of them would still end up working in retail or other garbage jobs. Someone has to do them.
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Old 03-10-2016, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
2,348 posts, read 1,892,588 times
Reputation: 1104
College admissions and NYC specialized high school admissions are two very different animals. One is free and the other is not. That doesn't mean poor students shouldn't do their best to get into the best high schools though. Going by that logic, every child entering kindergarten should just give up then because they'll never succeed because of college tuition costs.

Of course there are no guarantees. If you go to a specialized high school, that doesn't mean you will have enough money to go to a top college. However, you will at least put yourself in a better position to do so academically. As a student, that's all you can do. Going to a mediocre high school doesn't make college any cheaper.

Nobody is going to solve world hunger or get world peace overnight, but we have to start somewhere and at least try.
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Old 03-10-2016, 05:23 AM
 
1,998 posts, read 1,870,863 times
Reputation: 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The biggest problem with people on this thread is that they speak in 100% absolutes when no such things exist.
That is not how you make America great again. To be come the next president of the United States you need to be a straight shooter and tell it like it is. I am not part of the establishment (Ivy league) like you, I am an independent on my own money.
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