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Why is it every time there is a demand for increased wages from large corporations who have ranked in billions of profits so many of us are quick to take the narrative of corporations yet while many of you complain you're not getting paid enough at your own jobs?? Its so true crap rolls down hill because we play right into their hands. Somehow you feel these people are beneath you so screw them right? Then you turn around and complain about them being poor and what they're buying with their food stamps
I can understand some small businesses being adversely affected and certain ones should be exempt. But the idea of laying off thousands of workers tells me one has have taken on the narrative that a corporations billion dollar profits and a CEO's constantly increasing salaries SHOULD NEVER BE TOUCHED to pay for wage increases. Just pass it on to the customer. Right?
Why is it every time there is a demand for increased wages from large corporations who have ranked in billions of profits so many of us are quick to take the narrative of corporations yet while many of you complain you're not getting paid enough at your own jobs?? Its so true crap rolls down hill because we play right into their hands. Somehow you feel these people are beneath you so screw them right? Then you turn around and complain about them being poor and what they're buying with their food stamps
I can understand some small businesses being adversely affected and certain ones should be exempt. But the idea of laying off thousands of workers tells me one has have taken on the narrative that a corporations billion dollar profits and a CEO's constantly increasing salaries SHOULD NEVER BE TOUCHED to pay for wage increases. Just pass it on to the customer. Right?
If during the same 30 year period of increased profits and CEO salaries, wages would only have had to be increased .17 cents a year and jobs now paying $10/hr would be paying $15/hr and we would not have this issue now. But because greedy companies failed to increase American workers pay during this time, getting fat off of cheaper labor, we have this problem. Who's fault is that?
You're missing the point. Higher wages and higher compensation are driven by production, not government dictate. All raising the minimum wage does is artificially increase the cost of labor, which leads to a lower supply of labor through layoffs, fewer new positions, and reduced raises/benefits/promotions, etc. to people already working ant not laid off.
I'd love for peoples' wages to be increased as well (mine included) but that comes from the market and productivity as opposed to Washington DC or state capitals. If our government were smaller, regulations were less costly, taxes were lower, etc., then raising peoples' wages would be easier than it is today.
The total cost of employing someone is not just their hourly wage but also payroll taxes, benefits, regulatory cost compliance, legal risk, other overhead to support the position, etc. With, what, 94 million people of working age not in the labor force, there's no reason a business needs to pay a minimum of $15/hour (+ the other costs) for a basic job for which the number of candidates is much higher than the number of openings.
People trash corporations but, just like any other entity, a corporation acts in its best interest the same way you or I act in our individual best interest. If a company can get a great employee to do a certain job for a total of $40K, why would they want to spend more than that? That's where the market comes in. If a company tried to hire an experience software engineer for $30K, it won't have much luck b/c there is a shortage of talent in that field. However, if they can find the right person for $100K, there's no reason for them to spend $130K. That $30K that they don't spend unnecessarily can be reinvested in the business to support new hires, capital expenditures, etc. Telling a company that it should pay people more than they have to is the same as telling yourself you should work for less than your maximum potential or less than what your skills are worth; it's counterproductive. Of course companies will act in their best interest; noone else will anymore than noone besides you or I will represent the best interest of either one of us as individuals. If someone feels underpaid, they can always try to negotiate a higher compensation. If that does not work, they're free to seek employment elsewhere.
What do you think will happen if you raise minimum wage?
1) Businesses will lay off employees and make current employees take up the slack.
2) Businesses will cut in other places, reducing or not increasing wages for other employees or cutting quality to make up for the increased cost.
3) Business will raise prices to customers
4) Business will put a little less money into their big pile of dollars they've been squirreling away at the expense of their low-wage employees?
The first increases unemployment. The second is wage compression, so you get more at the minimum but it's harder to move up. The third results in inflation; increased wages and increased prices is wage and price inflation. The fourth is fantasyland. So which do you want, and which do you expect?
Personally I expect 1 and 2 in the short term and 3 in the long term, with the result being inflation until the minimum wage is in real terms back where it started.
What do you think will happen if you raise minimum wage?
1) Businesses will lay off employees and make current employees take up the slack.
2) Businesses will cut in other places, reducing or not increasing wages for other employees or cutting quality to make up for the increased cost.
3) Business will raise prices to customers
4) Business will put a little less money into their big pile of dollars they've been squirreling away at the expense of their low-wage employees?
The first increases unemployment. The second is wage compression, so you get more at the minimum but it's harder to move up. The third results in inflation; increased wages and increased prices is wage and price inflation. The fourth is fantasyland. So which do you want, and which do you expect?
Personally I expect 1 and 2 in the short term and 3 in the long term, with the result being inflation until the minimum wage is in real terms back where it started.
5. Depending on the role of the employee, you may see investments in automation. Do you really need a person to take orders at McDonalds? No. That's why they're experimenting with kiosks at some places already. If it all goes well, they will start to replace cashiers. Heck, we only need to look at the token booth clerks in the subway to know it's possible. Many of them have been replaced by Metrocard Vending Machines.
Doing some quick math.... if a McDonald's is open 6am-midnight (18 hrs), to have an employee at the register, it will cost $15/hr x 18 hrs x 365 days = $98,550 a year. That doesn't include any related expenses. Can McDonald's develop a kiosk system for less than $98k/year and replace at least one cashier? I'm sure they can. Of course, there will be a learning curve for customers at the beginning, but people will adjust, just like subway riders.
Last edited by bklynkenny; 03-12-2016 at 03:47 PM..
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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All of the above are very true effects of doubling the minimum wage, but it will continue to happen. It's a "feel good" for the lawmakers in major cities, which in the short term could benefit their further political aspirations with votes from people in that wage range. After a few years of the fallout, they will wish they still made $7.50 or whatever it was before.
5. Depending on the role of the employee, you may see investments in automation. Do you really need a person to take orders at McDonalds? No. That's why they're experimenting with kiosks at some places already. If it all goes well, they will start to replace cashiers. Heck, we only need to look at the token booth clerks in the subway to know it's possible. Many of them have been replaced by Metrocard Vending Machines.
Doing some quick math.... if a McDonald's is open 6am-midnight (18 hrs), to have an employee at the register, it will cost $15/hr x 18 hrs x 365 days = $98,550 a year. That doesn't include any related expenses. Can McDonald's develop a kiosk system for less than $98k/year and replace at least one cashier? I'm sure they can. Of course, there will be a learning curve for customers at the beginning, but people will adjust, just like subway riders.
The bigger problem for McDonald's is fending off the competition and staying relevant in today's economy.
An increase in the minimum wage should be the least of their worries.
Furthermore, what some of you fail to realize is that there is a difference between an economic and a political system. Capitalism is an economics framework, it never purports to function as a political framework.
We live in a capitalist society but that doesn't mean we strive for optimal efficiency on every measure. My friends and I in finance can crunch numbers all day and spit out optimal ways to run the economy much more efficiently. However, the US wouldn't be a great place to live at all.
There needs to be a healthy medium between economic efficiency and the average citizen's quality of life. Some of you fail to realize this very important notion.
In the end, corporations don't really give a damn what the minimum wage is. They'll just fire your ass. Its government sponsored discrimination against the lowest man on the totem pole.
There needs to be a healthy medium between economic efficiency and the average citizen's quality of life. Some of you fail to realize this very important notion.
In the end, corporations don't really give a damn what the minimum wage is. They'll just fire your ass. Its government sponsored discrimination against the lowest man on the totem pole.
Have you not grown up in the real world?
Have you ever worked anywhere? In any workplace there's extra fat. Sometime a lot of it and sometimes very little. Also, people making comparable wages don't all carry the same productivity levels. There are a myriad of inputs that vastly differ from employee to employee and company to company.
A reasonable minimum wage is just another input.
Why are people so tied up about the minimum wage? You have MTA employees rippling their salaries via overtime, a portion of the banking industry that's literally a vig on the economy, massive government waste, etc. yet people are obsesses about a $15 minimum wage.
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