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Two interesting articles (one from SF and the other from The Guardian) that might shed some light on coffee shop culture in poor neighborhoods like Mott Haven:
"...The alleged correlation between gentrification and coffee shop density isn’t just an urban myth. As the Guardian pointed out in February, houses and apartments near a Starbucks appreciate in value. Whether there’s a direct causal connection is debatable, but there is compelling statistical evidence to suggest that when Starbucks enters a neighborhood, higher real estate prices (and those who can afford them) quickly follow."
"...Yes, the green mermaid is as much branding for coffee as it is for gentrification. Yet coffee shops can only do so much. That venti latte might mark a neighborhood as up-and-coming, but sadly it isn’t single-handedly dragging that area out of poverty."
But these places don't always get it right. Guardian noted how Starbucks recently had to close down about 600 stores. mostly in poor areas. And I remember another early retail gentrification that failed here, when a Citarella fish market opened several years back on 125th St before the neighborhood could support it and had to close. In short, those new coffee places may be the herald of gentrification. But they also may have the timing all wrong and go out of business pretty soon. I just don't know the Bronx well enough to say.
The glare of real estate attention on this kind of venture in the South Bronx is amusing. I can just picture the place on a weekday...empty except for some reporters and brokers and the barista. The model they want is the L Cafe on Bedford Avenue in the early 90s, but that happened off the radar.
I suspected that the community activist behind this was some kind of shill. It just vibed that way. Sure enough, in the combox to the times article, ol' Ed Conde Garcia himself, guardian of Bronx authenticity,calls her out.
If these developers had any sense in their heads, they'd overcome the "collective action problem" and all build retail space in their new buildings for the interesting kinds of small stores and markets that people actually like, on the Chelsea Market model. Of course, if you get a new building in the Bronx, the commercial space is going to go to Duane Reades and Chase Bank outlets; while the developer of each building hopes that someone else will provide the amenities to make the area attractive.
Last edited by high iron; 06-01-2016 at 12:33 PM..
The glare of real estate attention on this kind of venture in the South Bronx is amusing. I can just picture the place on a weekday...empty except for some reporters and brokers and the barista. The model they want is the L Cafe on Bedford Avenue in the early 90s, but that happened off the radar.
Eh I don't think it's true that nobody in the hood likes higher end stuff.
Eh I don't think it's true that nobody in the hood likes higher end stuff.
Maybe, maybe not--although I will say, if you walked into the L Cafe in 1993, which was then situated in a Dominican neighborhood, you saw only white artistes with paint on their jeans, hung over indie rock musicians and the kind of undiscovered genius authors who are still working at Strand Books in their 50s.
That said, the Bronx is somewhat different. There seems to be a whole scene of people trying to encourage middle-class minority gentrification in that area and maybe this is what that's all about. Good luck to them anyhow. I just find it funny how the Times media spotlight lands on a joint like this that's still newborn.
My excitement for the South Bronx was just killed though I've always preferred the East Bronx.
East Bronx is where its at. To me I like the East Bronx far more than the South Bronx. West Bronx is disgusting, unless if you like Dominican booty, cucho fritos which I do like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995
While I do think Mott Haven will gentrify, I think some of you are exaggerating a little bit. The area is still far out of the comfort zone of most yuppie types. And it has a high concentration of NYCHA.
Harlem, LES have higher contentration of NYCHA vs Mott Haven and gentrification has not stopped in these places, but expanded around them. Look at Chelsea wit hits housing projects for example. I feel sorry for folks who live in NYCHA that has gentrification walled up around them, these folks can not afford, or participate in the new found wealth leaving many to be outsiders in their very own neighborhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPt111
Is possible for NYC to knock down the projects to fix mixed housing use around the city ?
No
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPt111
A coffee shop is not just a coffee shop,†Majora Carter said the other day.
Ms. Carter, who hails from the South Bronx and has been a longtime agent of change in what was once viewed as the most hardscrabble of New York neighborhoods, was talking about the arrival last week of Birch Coffee, whose exposed brick, reclaimed wood and $2.75 macchiatos make it an outlier on a stretch of Hunts Point Avenue dominated by dime stores, bodegas and auto shops.
A coffee shop, she was saying, can be a community hub and a tinderbox of creativity. People collide and cross paths over cappuccino, sharing catalytic ideas and business plans, and Hunts Point hasn’t had a spot quite like it for as long as she can remember.
“I find it funny and sad at the same time when people walk in and say, ‘Hey, I feel like I’m in Manhattan,’†said Ms. Carter, who has collaborated on the cafe with Jeremy Lyman and Paul Schlader, the entrepreneurs who have planted seven Birch outposts in other parts of the city. “You know what? You are in the Bronx, and we can have this here as well.â€
But what’s truly remarkable is that the South Bronx suddenly has two such overnight arrivals. Over in Mott Haven, a few stops away on the No. 6 train, in the shadow of the Major Deegan Expressway, a shop called Filtered Coffee opened in April with a red La Marzocco espresso machine, drowsy indie rock on the sound system and financier pastries shaped like teddy bears.
If a coffee shop can serve as a town hall, it can also act as something else: an early signal flare of incoming gentrification. With the financiers come the financiers. Jon Gray, a leader of a Bronx-based group of food lovers called Ghetto Gastro, said all the exposed brick and barista lingo could occasionally feel like code for “It’s safe to come, we’ve got lattes.â€
These two new cafes share a vintage-industrial look and an overlapping sense of both mission and opportunity. “The historical role of a coffee shop is a place to meet and have a conversation,†said Karen Paul, one of the entrepreneurs behind Filtered, which occupies a high-ceilinged space at the corner of Third Avenue and 134th Street. (There is also a Filtered Coffee in Harlem.)
Ms. Paul and Aaron Baird, her business partner, talk about how Filtered could become a crossroads for creative expression in Mott Haven. “Certain businesses come to fill a void in the community,†Mr. Baird said.
But they talk, too, about how nearby buildings have been filling with young people priced out of Brooklyn and Manhattan. “Basically, we always try to look for what’s an up-and-coming neighborhood,†said Mr. Baird, who grew up in Nebraska. “A lot of friends are moving here now.â€
Maybe, maybe not--although I will say, if you walked into the L Cafe in 1993, which was then situated in a Dominican neighborhood, you saw only white artistes with paint on their jeans, hung over indie rock musicians and the kind of undiscovered genius authors who are still working at Strand Books in their 50s.
That said, the Bronx is somewhat different. There seems to be a whole scene of people trying to encourage middle-class minority gentrification in that area and maybe this is what that's all about. Good luck to them anyhow. I just find it funny how the Times media spotlight lands on a joint like this that's still newborn.
I think it can do well if it's not overly pretentious, and fairly priced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
East Bronx is where its at. To me I like the East Bronx far more than the South Bronx. West Bronx is disgusting, unless if you like Dominican booty, cucho fritos which I do like.
Harlem, LES have higher contentration of NYCHA vs Mott Haven and gentrification has not stopped in these places, but expanded around them. Look at Chelsea wit hits housing projects for example. I feel sorry for folks who live in NYCHA that has gentrification walled up around them, these folks can not afford, or participate in the new found wealth leaving many to be outsiders in their very own neighborhood.
No
Wait for it, wait for it. Coffee shop going out of business in 3, 2, 1.
No way does LES have higher concentration of NYCHA than Mott Haven! And the Alphabet City/LES projects seem to be out of the way, while Mott Haven has projects everywhere.
And why would you feel bad for people living in the projects in gentrified neighborhoods? Paying 200 dollars a month to live in Chelsea is awesome!
What do you mean by West Bronx, though? It seems there are some bad neighborhoods there but also some nice ones West of Jerome Avenue, I like Kingsbridge for instance. And yeah the Dominican booty is great but in the East Bronx you have Puerto Rican booty to make up for it.
Here is my take on gentrification in Mott Haven. First thing is first, I laugh at the NYT article and any other article that pops about about gentrification. Other coffee shops have come, and those very same ones that came are now gone. These coffee shops don't seem like good business in the long run while most of the community would prefer coffee at 3 Dunkin Donuts located in the area. I think a woman opened up a coffee shop in Charlie's and that thing flopped. But I do hope these business do well in the short run. As for overall gentrification in Mott Haven. My thing is this, if you build it, they will come. What I'm talking about is high end housing. If you build it they will come, maybe a Trader Joes or something. If you build it they will come, converting warehouses into lofts. The only positive about Mott Haven is its close proximity to Manhattan, and four train lines that connect to either east or west sides of Manhattan. Mott Haven still has a long way to go. Mott Haven has environmental issues, health issues, one block can be nice, while the next block is like crap. Crime and poverty, schools and academics, filthy streets and etc. Another big problem for Mott Haven is going to be the moving of the 40th precinct to East 149th street. The folks in the projects along 138 will be happy when the 40th Precinct moves. The gentry folks wont be as protected when coming home at night when the 40th precinct moves.
Another way for Mott Haven to gentrify is if Harlem becomes an economic hub like Midtown or FIDI, but that's not going to happen anytime soon or during my life time.
I think it can do well if it's not overly pretentious, and fairly priced.
No way does LES have higher concentration of NYCHA than Mott Haven! And the Alphabet City/LES projects seem to be out of the way, while Mott Haven has projects everywhere.
And why would you feel bad for people living in the projects in gentrified neighborhoods? Paying 200 dollars a month to live in Chelsea is awesome!
What do you mean by West Bronx, though? It seems there are some bad neighborhoods there but also some nice ones West of Jerome Avenue, I like Kingsbridge for instance. And yeah the Dominican booty is great but in the East Bronx you have Puerto Rican booty to make up for it.
Paying 200 dollars rent is ok, but what about paying 200 dollars for weekly groceries at Whole Foods? Clearly folks in NYCHA can not enjoy the good life of gentrification.
Paying 200 dollars rent is ok, but what about paying 200 dollars for weekly groceries at Whole Foods? Clearly folks in NYCHA can not enjoy the good life of gentrification.
Nobody said they had to do their shopping at whole foods, I'm sure there are at least some lower priced super markets in Lower and Midtown Mahattan. Even if they have to take the subway, many people not living in NYCHA do that anyway.
And most people in NYCHA are probably poor enough to go on food stamps.
Paying 200 dollars rent is ok, but what about paying 200 dollars for weekly groceries at Whole Foods? Clearly folks in NYCHA can not enjoy the good life of gentrification.
Whole Foods can be cheaper then those trashy stores if you know how to shop well and smartly
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though I've always preferred the East Bronx.
