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I think you're behind the times too. Many of the wealthy purchasing real estate in NYC are Chinese and not even Christian. Never mind that there is no shortage of wealthy Catholics.
I never said purchase I said own. Examples thier is a Episcopalian church in mott haven called St and church, it is one of the oldest churches in the Bronx. One of the countries founding fathers is entombed there. I dug up history of that church and it's benefactors. The benefsctor Lewis Morris factor owns land in mott haven after 250 years since this countries birth. The Morris family are espiscopalian. Also work for a real estate company and how espiscopalians still own land in Manhattan. The Jews might own the building, but don't own the land. When the land lease is done. It has to be renewed coasting tens of millions of dollars for a few decades. Owning land and owning real estate are two different things. Example one building I know of is owned by a Jew. It's a big building in Manhattan. However he does not own the land where the building is built on top off. The sad part is the land itself has more value than the building and the land lease where the building sits has already expired. The land the building sits on is owned by a Protestant family.
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 06-26-2016 at 05:18 PM..
Anglicanism is one of the four main historical schools of Protestantism (Lutheranism, Calvinism (also known as Reform), Anglicanism and Anabaptism). You don't have to be from a Lutheran or Calvinist church to be Protestant; the Anglicans/Episcopalians and the Mennonites and Amish (the only descendants of Anabaptism) are equally Protestant.
if you define protestant as merely "protesting" against the pope, then yes.
but protestantism born out of the reformation was a movement which has wholly different roots compared to anglicanism. protestantism absolutely severs all ties to the catholic church, wheras anglicanism views itself as an unbroken continuity of the early apostolic catholic church. the church of england was basically founded when henry viii wanted an annulment from catherine of aragon and required certain amendments to catholicism.
also, protestants differ from anglicans as they do not hold clergymen, they reject papal supremacy, ie the pope or any human religous figure of power, and believe in justification by faith alone which removes all catholic rituals of atonement. nor do protestants believe in purgatory. nor do protestants celebrate the eucharist. nor do they worship symbols. there are no statues of saints or crucifixes to be found in a protestant church.
from that basis, anglicanism is a kind of progressive form of catholicism. there is the 39 articles, which incorporates some protestant doctrine in extremely vague writings to be interpreted as the believer wishes within the core tenents of catholicism.
Last edited by HarryHaller73; 06-26-2016 at 06:31 PM..
I never said purchase I said own. Examples thier is a Episcopalian church in mott haven called St and church, it is one of the oldest churches in the Bronx. One of the countries founding fathers is entombed there. I dug up history of that church and it's benefactors. The benefsctor Lewis Morris factor owns land in mott haven after 250 years since this countries birth. The Morris family are espiscopalian. Also work for a real estate company and how espiscopalians still own land in Manhattan. The Jews might own the building, but don't own the land. When the land lease is done. It has to be renewed coasting tens of millions of dollars for a few decades. Owning land and owning real estate are two different things.
Trinity Church in Lower Manhattan is one of if not the largest landowner of NYC real estate, much of it in Manhattan and worth billions.
Not sure if the town still has restricted country clubs.
The clubs that were restricted were called "The Short Hills Club" and "The Raquets Club"
ah ok. i wouldn't go to the extent to saying short hills is a waspy town full of racist episcopalians, it's filled with wealthy people in general. there are lots of lutherans and presbyterians as well. there is also a large ashkenazi jewish population there too from what i remember, who have enormous wealth and who many new yorkers would mistake as waspy. that said, there are many jewish community organizations in short hills that are pretty closed off to others and they aren't being "racist" or "restrictive". the same could be said with the chinese community.
i used to be a member of those types of clubs you refer to because i got grandfathered in via my father, their members weren't racist, i found it was mostly a function of people of other ethnicities not even trying to make an effort to assimilate or even try to join and at the very worst, the members were just class sensitive. i grew up in greenwich ct, which is alot like short hills, and our club had no problem accepting japanese members in the 90's simply because they made an effort and fit the general philosophies of the membership. I doubt they would have accepted any working class members, even white "waspy" ones, so it was more a function of socioeconomics.
ah ok. i wouldn't go to the extent to saying short hills is a waspy town full of racist episcopalians, it's filled with wealthy people in general. there are lots of lutherans and presbyterians as well. there is also a large ashkenazi jewish population there too from what i remember, who have enormous wealth and who many new yorkers would mistake as waspy. that said, there are many jewish community organizations in short hills that are pretty closed off to others and they aren't being "racist" or "restrictive". the same could be said with the chinese community.
i used to be a member of those types of clubs you refer to because i got grandfathered in via my father, their members weren't racist, i found it was mostly a function of people of other ethnicities not even trying to make an effort to assimilate or even try to join. i grew up in greenwich ct, which is alot like short hills, and our club had no problem accepting japanese members in the 90's simply because they made an effort and fit the general philosophies of the membership.
Short Hills is less WASPy now than i was 30 years ago, when I lived there.
Yes, there are many other Protestants, as well as a large Jewish population, and a growing Asian population.
And no, the Jews aren't WASPy, lol
The Episcopalian church in town is called Christ Church. It's understandable if non-Christians can't join the church, just as non-Jews can't join SOME of the synagogues (not sure if they can possibly join the more liberal synagogues. Non-Jews are certainly free to attend services and events at the synagogues.)
A church or synagogue is not a "restrictive organization", like the restrictive recreational/social clubs that I referenced above. It is a faith/religious organization - big difference.
There are NO "Jewish community organizations that are pretty closed off to others" in Short Hills.
The closest Jewish Community Center, in West Orange, NJ, is open to all and is well-attended by Jewish and non-Jewish members alike.
Not so for the restricted country clubs while I was growing up in Short Hills.
Jews were not welcome to join, and those that applied for membership had their application rejected.
There were NO Jewish members of the aforementioned clubs. (Needless to say, there were also no black or Asian members. The clubs did not even accept white Catholics!)
i used to be a member of those types of clubs you refer to because i got grandfathered in via my father, their members weren't racist, i found it was mostly a function of people of other ethnicities not even trying to make an effort to assimilate or even try to join and at the very worst, the members were just class sensitive. i grew up in greenwich ct, which is alot like short hills, and our club had no problem accepting japanese members in the 90's simply because they made an effort and fit the general philosophies of the membership. I doubt they would have accepted any working class members, even white "waspy" ones, so it was more a function of socioeconomics.
Lovely. So they're classist as well as racist.
I wouldn't see any need to DEFEND these kind of clubs.
I wouldn't see any need to DEFEND these kind of clubs.
the one club i belonged to wasn't racist at all. there were also african americans, one a surgeon. it was about elitism. i left because it didn't fit my lifestyle and i don't play golf or tennis. however, these clubs or organizations do still exist everywhere, they just aren't as visible as in the past, ie on the side of a main street with a large sign reading, "racquet club". elite-ism is everywhere, just look around. there are hidden nightclubs in miami, NYC and LA that won't let you in if you're not one of them.
Last edited by HarryHaller73; 06-26-2016 at 06:20 PM..
The Episcopalian church in town is called Christ Church. It's understandable if non-Christians can't join the church, just as non-Jews can't join SOME of the synagogues (not sure if they can possibly join the more liberal synagogues. Non-Jews are certainly free to attend services and events at the synagogues.)
A church or synagogue is not a "restrictive organization", like the restrictive recreational/social clubs that I referenced above. It is a faith/religious organization - big difference.
There are NO "Jewish community organizations that are pretty closed off to others" in Short Hills.
The closest Jewish Community Center, in West Orange, NJ, is open to all and is well-attended by Jewish and non-Jewish members alike.
Not so for the restricted country clubs while I was growing up in Short Hills.
Jews were not welcome to join, and those that applied for membership had their application rejected.
There were NO Jewish members of the aforementioned clubs. (Needless to say, there were also no black or Asian members. The clubs did not even accept white Catholics!)
i disagree. non-Christians can join any protestant church. many start as non-believers and protestant churches welcome that. i highly doubt that i, myself as a gentile could ever simply start attending service at a synogogue on a regular basis and pursue membership to the extent that i become identified as a jew within their community. that was my point. there are restricted areas within society that you may not even be aware of even in your own communities.
the one club i belonged to wasn't racist at all. there were also african americans, one a surgeon. it was about elitism. i left because it didn't fit my lifestyle and i don't play golf or tennis. however, these clubs or organizations do still exist everywhere, they just aren't as visible as in the past, ie on the side of a main street with a large sign reading, "racquet club". elite-ism is everywhere, just look around. there are hidden nightclubs in miami, NYC and LA that won't let you in if you're not one of them.
Okay,so the club you belonged to was not restrictive by ethnicity.
The ones in my town were.
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