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Partly correct about airlines occasionaly using terminal 4. Terminal 4 is still used by JetBlue on overnight arrivals from international destinations.
Airlines occasionally still NEED to use terminal 4 if they don't have any US Customs facilities in their domestic only terminals. This is why JetBlue used to always have a presence in T4, because we never had in-house customs.
Now JetBlue has US Customs in T5, but only until about 11:30pm or so. Any international arrival coming in later than that, has to clear at T4. And it ain't cheap when this happens!
Terminal 4 is the only Terminal in JFK with 24/7 customs.
Hence why it is in their best interest to expand their terminals. So they can ensure that if they land on time they don't have to pay to get towed due to lack of gate space.
P.s. they don't have to go to Terminal 4. They can, and some do elect, to pay to have the terminals open to process their passengers if they get in past 11:30pm.
It is actually more cost effective if there will be multipe flights coming after this time. For some reason, many airlines do not elect to negotiate this with customs. CBP is a 24 hr operation. Paying the agency to cover the overtime cost for the officers to process late flights is much cheaper than gate and tow fees. But I am not in the business of airline management so there must be a reason why they would rather spend that extra money.
Partly correct about airlines occasionaly using terminal 4. Terminal 4 is still used by JetBlue on overnight arrivals from international destinations.
Airlines occasionally still NEED to use terminal 4 if they don't have any US Customs facilities in their domestic only terminals. This is why JetBlue used to always have a presence in T4, because we never had in-house customs.
Now JetBlue has US Customs in T5, but only until about 11:30pm or so. Any international arrival coming in later than that, has to clear at T4. And it ain't cheap when this happens!
Terminal 4 is the only Terminal in JFK with 24/7 customs.
I was specifically referring to the airlines that are international only that have contract with one terminal. They are forced to go to Terminal 4 and pay the cost associated because their home terminal had no gate space and they didn't make the cut off time for blocking their flights.
I was specifically referring to the airlines that are international only that have contract with one terminal. They are forced to go to Terminal 4 and pay the cost associated because their home terminal had no gate space and they didn't make the cut off time for blocking their flights.
There are no "International Only" Airlines at JFK that have a "Home Terminal".
Not sure what you mean exactly.
You have American Based airlines like AA, DL, B6, UA, etc that also fly internationally.
Then you have Airlines from other countries that are Domestic in their home country, but come here as an international carrier.
The latter do not have a "Home Terminal". Whatever terminal they have a contract with is just that, a contracted terminal where they use Check-in and Gate space for the time they need it (as well as Above/Below wing customer handling)
Now - aside from all of that, on a normal day there shouldn't be an issue with gate space. Normal meaning, clear weather, no delays, no ground stops, no mechanicals, everything working like clock work. This is because JFK is a slot restricted airport and each and every airline has a in and out time. So all airlines know exactly what time a gate will be available for the next inbound.
Now, any type of weather in the area, mechanical delay, late crew arriving, etc... then yes gates will start getting backed up. In that case that is now just a JFK issue, that is a common issue in all airports that is unavoidable.
Is JFK still looking like the 60s? It's been a minute since I flew outta there......!
Terminal 8, 5 and 4 are the newset most modern terminals. They look nice for NYC Standards. Terminal 1, 2 and 7 are long in the tooth and need a tear down
The part about the 747/A380 going away is correct. But wide body's are still doing well. They just have to be twin engine. The 787 has been a blockbuster. The are a huge number of 777s flying, and a new, bigger version is about to go into production.
The larger narrowbodies are basically 757 replacements. That was a very popular plane, and there really hasn't been a good replacement for it built.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdywerd
The future of aviation is narrow bodies. Look at 737 MAX and A321LR, those are the future. They fly just as far, using less fuel. That's all airlines care about.
747's and A380's are already down to just a few customers, most airlines are cancelling their orders and looking at smaller more fuel efficient planes. In about 5-10 years these jumbos will no longer be made.
The only widebodies that are doing well are the 787 and A350 due to their fuel savings
There are no "International Only" Airlines at JFK that have a "Home Terminal".
Not sure what you mean exactly.
You have American Based airlines like AA, DL, B6, UA, etc that also fly internationally.
Then you have Airlines from other countries that are Domestic in their home country, but come here as an international carrier.
The latter do not have a "Home Terminal". Whatever terminal they have a contract with is just that, a contracted terminal where they use Check-in and Gate space for the time they need it (as well as Above/Below wing customer handling)
Now - aside from all of that, on a normal day there shouldn't be an issue with gate space. Normal meaning, clear weather, no delays, no ground stops, no mechanicals, everything working like clock work. This is because JFK is a slot restricted airport and each and every airline has a in and out time. So all airlines know exactly what time a gate will be available for the next inbound.
Now, any type of weather in the area, mechanical delay, late crew arriving, etc... then yes gates will start getting backed up. In that case that is now just a JFK issue, that is a common issue in all airports that is unavoidable.
International only was referring to airlines based in another country. They have no domestic routes in the united states. Flights come in on time more than you know and were unable to get a gate or their time from landing to the processing of their passenger is longer than 'normal'. Jetblue terminal does not have the huge volume of international flight load so you can't fathom this happening. They don't have long wait times for gate.
Your experience with the efficiency of Jetblue's terminal may result in you thinking this is the norm. I know that airlines are moving from one terminal to the next because they are having problems with the length of time it takes to process their passenger due to multiple incoming flight loads . Also dealing with gates unavailable despite landing within the required time period. You should know it's not when you land but when your flight is blocked that is the cut off time for customs.
If you are privy to the stats for wait times from landing to the actual processing of the pax for some airlines from the other terminals you would understand what I am saying. Anyways. I am sure Jetblue and Delta are not the only smart airlines/ terminal management that know that it is in their best interest to invest in the improvement of their terminal.
You can't expand your route, increase flights, expand your airlines, establish market dominance(the way Jetblue and delta are doing) without investing in your infrastructure.
I doubt Jetblue or Delta would have been able to rapidly expand and increase their flights and expand their route (from JFK) the way they did if they had to share limited existing facilities. You should know that.
Is JFK still looking like the 60s? It's been a minute since I flew outta there......!
Delta and Jetblue has the most modern terminals. Terminal one has potential. They may need to try to negotiate the lease of terminal 2 and make a connected walkway/use a jitney/ expand the terminal.
British is a total demolition. American design and layout is poor. I have also seen water pouring from their ceiling when traveling. The construction was shoddy. Until recently they had no bathrooms in the Baggage area for international arriving passengers. The terminal looks dark and depressing.
Delta and Jetblue are great. Particularly Delta. Good job with the layout/expansion of their terminal. They maximized the return on their investment with the sheer volume of flights that they can cram into that terminal. I always joke that they sell every gate then give discounts for hard stand arrival and departures. They have a dedicated gate for hard stand departures lol. Their duty free/food offering is better than Jetblue. But they have a more monied Clientel. They get more of the business/wealthy international travelers so their shops reflect that. Jetblue wins for aesthetics, free WiFi and that outdoor waiting area and their garden. A yoga instructure said she also held Yoga classes there. So they win on most Zen terminal.
Jetblue looses points for the distance of the airtrain and that horrible ramp design going to the terminal that causes such a bottle neck.
Last edited by LOVEROFNYC; 01-06-2017 at 11:51 PM..
JFK is close to being a top caliber airport, my assessment:
Terminal 1 - Modern International Terminal - Maintained to high standards for prestigous flag carriers
Terminal 2 - Old but days are numbered - Delta ot redo
Terminal 3 - Currently under construction, sure to be a palatial modern palace of transportation for Delta
Terminal 4 - Modern spacious terminal - built for the flag airlines of the world & Delta
Terminal 5 - Modern specious terminal - bespoke for the hometown domestic airline JetBlue
Terminal 6 - Future TBD
Terminal 7 - BA terminal aging but has still well maintained
Terminal 8 & 9 - Modern terminal - but shoddy maintenance due to AA Texas cheapo factor
Runways are sufficient for operations. No change needed.
I always go back and forth between choosing LGA and JFK for my flights. Honestly, I don't get those saying it's too far away. For taxis and views, of course. But the train ride is quick, especially if you take LIRR instead of subway. A one-seat ride would be nice, but depending on where you're going it isn't that bad presently. I used to live in Sydney and they charge $17.50 AUD for the airport train to city center! Now that's ridiculous. AirTrain, plus subway/LIRR, is cheap in comparison. Only using LIRR would get you close to paying what you'd pay in Sydney.
For me...LGA for incredible plane views flying in, and proximity. I live on the M60 bus line. But I'm a big JetBlue fan, so more often than not I'll fly out of JFK.
Is anyone avoiding LGA at the moment to the construction? I've heard it isn't as bad now?
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