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Are you sure? Therr must be at least one Southeast Queens neighborhood that fits the bill, ranging from working poor to upper middle class (and 90+% black).
So find one then. As a matter of fact, Far Rockaway would be the only neighborhood that fit the bill, as its one of the few zip codes in Queens that has NYCHA and million dollar listings (11691 definitely, 11693 maybe). Only problem is very few blacks, if any on the million dollar listing end. Definitely a few areas in Western Queens will fit the bill on this too, but those are not majority black neighborhoods as well. So it all comes down to the almighty dollar over race.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
But there are neighborhoods in that part of Queens where there seems to be a mix of people from different economic backgrounds. Laurelton and Springfield Gardens come to mind.
No NYCHA, so check how many Section 8 apartments in Laurelton and get back to me. Springfield Gardens might have a few Section 8 apartments, but I highly doubt it. Working poor would have an extra hard time living in those neighborhoods anyway, because they are not walkable neighborhoods. So I doubt they're choosing to live there.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
So find one then. As a matter of fact, Far Rockaway would be the only neighborhood that fit the bill, as its one of the few zip codes in Queens that has NYCHA and million dollar listings (11691 definitely, 11693 maybe). Only problem is very few blacks, if any on the million dollar listing end. Definitely a few areas in Western Queens will fit the bill on this too, but those are not majority black neighborhoods as well. So it all comes down to the almighty dollar over race.
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Originally Posted by SeventhFloor
No NYCHA, so check how many Section 8 apartments in Laurelton and get back to me. Springfield Gardens might have a few Section 8 apartments, but I highly doubt it. Working poor would have an extra hard time living in those neighborhoods anyway, because they are not walkable neighborhoods. So I doubt they're choosing to live there.
I work in Springfield Gardens and my wage would be considered working poor for NYC standards, I have plenty of coworkers who live in Southeast Queens. Conversely, there are many middle class people in these neighborhoods as well.
So while the range isn't quite NYCHA to mansions, there is considerable economic diversity.
And sure Springfield Gardens is walkable, there are a bajillion buses that go through it, and you're never too far away from a store of some sort.
I work in Springfield Gardens and my wage would be considered working poor for NYC standards, I have plenty of coworkers who live in Southeast Queens. Conversely, there are many middle class people in these neighborhoods as well.
So while the range isn't quite NYCHA to mansions, there is considerable economic diversity.
And sure Springfield Gardens is walkable, there are a bajillion buses that go through it, and you're never too far away from a store of some sort.
Diversity means a pretty even mix...I don't think people over there are as poor as you think. If it was Section 8, the area would look run down. Springfield Gardens doesn't look as run-down as it did in the 1980s, the corner of Farmers Boulevard and Guy R. Brewer looking like the Walking Dead with crackheads hanging outside of the Owl Bar, you don't know about that......its come a long way from that...so I stick with my point.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
So when people say "oh the bronx isnt diverse" whats the issue? is it because theres not enough white people? is it because theres not that many asians (which is a legit criticism)? Is it white people feel uncomfortable bc blacks and browns highly outnumber them? Keep in mind queens is diverse but its also highly segregated. Brooklyn's chinese community has exploded but they live in their separate areas as well.
It's a number of things. For starters, the borough as a whole has a small white population, and yet whites are the large majority in the neighborhoods that they live in. Most of the white neighborhoods may look diverse, but that's because you have minorities that work in them during the weekday. Go to some of them on the weekends, especially when it isn't the summertime when people tend to travel more, and you'll see just how "diverse" they are. The same is true of the minority majority neighborhoods. Try going to the South Bronx near the Courthouses on the weekends when there isn't a Yankee game, and see how many whites you'll see? I just don't see enough interaction among various ethnic and racial groups to call it diverse, even in what looks like diverse neighborhoods.
NYWriterDude claims that there is so much mixing that goes on, but I don't see it. When I see people walking around in various Bronx neighborhoods, what I see is usually people of the same ethnic group or racial group mingling, even though you may see people of different backgrounds walking about. I don't call that diverse at all. I will say that it has improved overall. The white neighborhoods have more minorities in them, and there I do see interracial couples - particularly in the summertime, which makes me question if they really live there because their presence isn't as noticeable otherwise. The minority neighborhoods now have a trace of other groups. Seeing whites here and there in some parts of the Bronx tells me that there has been some improvement, but there's still a ways to go.
As for the Asians, they tend to be present in some of the white neighborhoods, but still in small numbers and generally in upper class areas. For example, you will see Koreans and Japanese people in Riverdale. The Indians/South East Asians tend to be in Parkchester. The other areas are likely either too dangerous or too ethnically insular for them to consider.
The Chinese went to Bensonhurst and Sunset Park because it was far out and CHEAP compared to other places. They are being pushed out of the Chinatown in Manhattan, and the ones that don't have money yet have to settle somewhere. They are certainly making their presence felt in Forest Hills (including Forest Hills Gardens, which has historically been White and Jewish), Whitestone, Bayside/Bay Terrace, Little Neck and Douglaston - basically most of Northeast Queens and any other upper middle class areas close to Flushing outside of places like Neponsit or Breezy Point, which are too far away from their base and expensive. In Brooklyn, they have slowly started taking over parts of Dyker Heights. The Chinese seem to have a propensity for moving into White ethnic neighborhoods.
Last edited by pierrepont7731; 03-24-2017 at 12:18 PM..
It's a number of things. For starters, the borough as a whole has a small white population, and yet whites are the large majority in the neighborhoods that they live in. Most of the white neighborhoods may look diverse, but that's because you have minorities that work in them during the weekday. Go to some of them on the weekends, especially when it isn't the summertime when people tend to travel more, and you'll see just how "diverse" they are. The same is true of the minority majority neighborhoods. Try going to the South Bronx near the Courthouses on the weekends when there isn't a Yankee game, and see how many whites you'll see? I just don't see enough interaction among various ethnic and racial groups to call it diverse, even in what looks like diverse neighborhoods.
NYWriterDude claims that there is so much mixing that goes on, but I don't see it. When I see people walking around in various Bronx neighborhoods, what I see is usually people of the same ethnic group or racial group mingling, even though you may see people of different backgrounds walking about. I don't call that diverse at all. I will say that it has improved overall. The white neighborhoods have more minorities in them, and there I do see interracial couples - particularly in the summertime, which makes me question if they really live there because their presence isn't as noticeable otherwise. The minority neighborhoods now have a trace of other groups. Seeing whites here and there in some parts of the Bronx tells me that there has been some improvement, but there's still a ways to go.
Nywriterdude is highly accurate when he says theres a lot of intermingling between hte various black and latino groups (and ive had some bitter disagreements with this guy mind you).......you might not know anybody deep enoug to hang out and really see it but most bronx residents will tell you this. I think riverdale and woodlawn are the only true "white" neighborhoods left in the bronx. 1/3rd of throgs neck is middle class puerto rican families (and thats not including the residents of the projects) and 1/2 the whites in throgs neck are albanian. Ditto for country club. Pelham Pkwy and Van nest are about as diverse as youll get in the bronx. Pelham pkwy (esp near white plains rd) is latinos blacks and albaninans......van nest is the above plus arabs. Westchester square is mainly latinos and bangladeshis.
Nywriterdude is highly accurate when he says theres a lot of intermingling between hte various black and latino groups (and ive had some bitter disagreements with this guy mind you).......you might not know anybody deep enoug to hang out and really see it but most bronx residents will tell you this. I think riverdale and woodlawn are the only true "white" neighborhoods left in the bronx. 1/3rd of throgs neck is middle class puerto rican families (and thats not including the residents of the projects) and 1/2 the whites in throgs neck are albanian. Ditto for country club. Pelham Pkwy and Van nest are about as diverse as youll get in the bronx. Pelham pkwy (esp near white plains rd) is latinos blacks and albaninans......van nest is the above plus arabs. Westchester square is mainly latinos and bangladeshis.
Country Club and Morris Park are still majority Italian. Morris Park has some Albanians but the Italians still make up over 50% of the population and I know because I know several people in Indian Village. A colleague of mine used to live there. Wife was Italian-American. Husband was French. All of the neighbors are Italian-American. Very close knit nice people who look out for one another. Albanians have not over taken Country Club either. Still heavily Italian-American. Throgs Neck I would agree with, but whites still control the areas east of the expressway towards the water. You also forgot about Pelham Bay (still majority white - Italian-American) and City Island (majority white - Irish-American, Italian-American, etc.) Pelham Gardens is a mix these day, but more Italian-American around Mace Avenue.
Toronto and London youll have many different races living in the same neighborhood on the same block. Youll have multiple races living in public housing together. brooklyn and queens are diverse yet highly segregated
That's why London seems so bland to me (can't speak for Toronto). Yes, it is ethnically diverse to the highest degree, but the lack of enclaves in most of the city makes it just an ethnic jumble, no character. The most interesting ethnic aspect of London is its own traditional old-school indigenous underclass, what remains of the Cockneys.
The charm of NYC is its ethnic neighborhoods, not a building with a different smell coming from every apartment.
That's why London seems so bland to me (can't speak for Toronto). Yes, it is ethnically diverse to the highest degree, but the lack of enclaves in most of the city makes it just an ethnic jumble, no character. The most interesting ethnic aspect of London is its own traditional old-school indigenous underclass, what remains of the Cockneys.
The charm of NYC is its ethnic neighborhoods, not a building with a different smell coming from every apartment.
theres enclaves but its not super segregated like most american cities.....
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