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Old 04-15-2017, 09:13 AM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,972,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
It's impractical because of the overlap.

The country was set up to have individual state departments of education.
Then comes in an overreaching federal department of education.

Why keep both?

I think the asinine thing is probably, at this point, keeping states in charge of educational standards. Moreoften national governments DO have their hand in education.

Rewrite laws to abolish the State Education Departments (save Hawaii, as they actually function as the state's sole school district) and transition those workers to federal roles.

Each state has its own curriculums, own frameworks, own certification agencies- which seems nuts given the ability for people in this nation to transition from state to state quite rapidly.

Local school boards would still have authority and autonomy. It just seems silly at this point to believe kids in individual states could ever need to be learning anything radically different aside from local geography, history, etc.

In the interim though, the Federal Department of Education has no authority in K-12 and Arnie Duncan / Obama did a lot of damage causing a hemorrhage of K-12 educators in a LOT of the country.
You would need a constitutional amendment to give the federal government that kind of authority. That requires 2/3rds of Congress, plus 3/4ths of the states to ratify it. The South and the interior West hate expansions of federal authority and will block something like this, politically the idea is DOA.

Each state has it's own educational policy because the US constitution gives powers not explicitly reserved to the federal government to the states. So education is mainly a state issue, not a national issue.

Duncan/Obama by supporting things like the common core which made a lot of teachers leave teaching, also set up the stage for the bills in Congress to get rid of the department.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:32 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 5,075,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
You would need a constitutional amendment to give the federal government that kind of authority. That requires 2/3rds of Congress, plus 3/4ths of the states to ratify it. The South and the interior West hate expansions of federal authority and will block something like this, politically the idea is DOA.

Each state has it's own educational policy because the US constitution gives powers not explicitly reserved to the federal government to the states. So education is mainly a state issue, not a national issue.

Duncan/Obama by supporting things like the common core which made a lot of teachers leave teaching, also set up the stage for the bills in Congress to get rid of the department.
Not necessarily. States can voluntarily agree to adopt Federally proposed curriculum, tests, standards, and teaching licenses.

I'm aware that educational policy is a 'State' issue. My post suggested that it is redundant. Either the ED's K-12 should be scrapped or the States, and it makes absolutely more sense to adopt rules that eliminate the state sides of things. Children's course of study is not specifically relevant to the state they live in.

However, if they opt not to do that- then eliminate the Federal Dept. of Education, as it should never have existed in the way it did during the Obama era.

Common Core was not as destructive as Race to the Top. That nonsense is what caused a lot of management reforms which created a lot of bloat, for apparently no extra money.
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:40 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,972,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
Not necessarily. States can voluntarily agree to adopt Federally proposed curriculum, tests, standards, and teaching licenses.

I'm aware that educational policy is a 'State' issue. My post suggested that it is redundant. Either the ED's K-12 should be scrapped or the States, and it makes absolutely more sense to adopt rules that eliminate the state sides of things. Children's course of study is not specifically relevant to the state they live in.

However, if they opt not to do that- then eliminate the Federal Dept. of Education, as it should never have existed in the way it did during the Obama era.

Common Core was not as destructive as Race to the Top. That nonsense is what caused a lot of management reforms which created a lot of bloat, for apparently no extra money.
The key word is voluntary. When states want to reject federal proposals, they are free to do so if they want to turn down federal funding, and often they do. Or people can send their students to private schools that don't get federal funds.

They can't eliminate state departments of education and empower the federal department of education without a constitutional amendment, as noted the department has no ability to enforce anything when schools, districts, and states reject federal funding.

Obama did stuff like use the department to make all schools have gender neutral bathrooms to please transgender activists, and this is part of the reason there's been such a huge backlash. The federally backed student loans and pell grants will probably survive (they could still happen as a part of another federal agency or still in the department if Congress decides to keep it), but the k-12 aspects will likely have their budgets slaughtered in the next couple of years. I think this will have lasting consequences, as both common core and race to the top were LOATHED. We'll know more when a budget is passed.
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Old 04-15-2017, 11:16 PM
 
31,907 posts, read 26,970,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky91 View Post
I don't understand where the idea people can't get jobs because they went to CUNY. All of us were able to get good jobs fairly quickly.
I know quite a few people who work on wall street with their "useless" CUNY degree.

Whatever you say.

https://patch.com/new-york/new-york-...ake-most-money
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:30 AM
 
Location: NYC
1,040 posts, read 1,262,756 times
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Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Lmao

What is this even based on your pay is based on experience and a proven track record .
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:29 AM
 
3,951 posts, read 5,075,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The key word is voluntary. When states want to reject federal proposals, they are free to do so if they want to turn down federal funding, and often they do. Or people can send their students to private schools that don't get federal funds.

They can't eliminate state departments of education and empower the federal department of education without a constitutional amendment, as noted the department has no ability to enforce anything when schools, districts, and states reject federal funding.
Many state laws were changed to accommodate federal considerations for education and teacher evaluations. Some states won't play around if it means not getting funding, NYCDOE and UFT rejected forced evaluation and merit pay for a while and skirted around it.

The EDs demands are impactful whether they have the right to make them or not.
Trash the ED or the State Ed Departments, and if it takes a constitutional change, which it realistically doesn't, then go ahead and do it.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:32 AM
 
3,951 posts, read 5,075,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
They only polled students who received federal financial aid.
That's skewing the results away from the children of the well to do who come out of college just as well to do.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:32 AM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,972,470 times
Reputation: 10120
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
Many state laws were changed to accommodate federal considerations for education and teacher evaluations. Some states won't play around if it means not getting funding, NYCDOE and UFT rejected forced evaluation and merit pay for a while and skirted around it.

The EDs demands are impactful whether they have the right to make them or not.
Trash the ED or the State Ed Departments, and if it takes a constitutional change, which it realistically doesn't, then go ahead and do it.
You have as soon at the Congressional budget, which is passed this month.
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