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I agree that Sunset Park is mainly working class and that Bay Ridge is mainly middle class.
Not sure if I would say that Bay Ridge is upper class though; in fact, it does have a blue collar feel in parts for sure.
I don't want to make Sunset Park out to be "more than what it is". Honestly, I have spent little time there. I don't live in either neighborhood, and neither would really be my choice (although there are worse places to live than either for sure).
I just take issue with your repeatedly using the word "established" to describe Bay Ridge. I do think you are using it as code for "white", and it's rude.
Why keep using the word "established", after it has been noted that you really mean to say white, or middle class, or something else?
It's rude to you because you're trying to misconstrue what I'm saying. Bay Ridge is established because it has never been dumpy. It's always been a clean, safe neighborhood, with plenty of restaurants and bars so it is established in that it doesn't need to gentrify. I don't know what isn't clear about that. I could say the same thing about several other Brooklyn neighborhoods that are relatively diverse like Midwood. Midwood is an established neighborhood, solidly middle class overall and safe, and while there isn't much in the way of nightlife, it certainly doesn't need to gentrify. Now go on ahead and say it's rude of me to describe Midwood that way.
Bay Ridge east of Third Avenue is indeed more blue collar, but west of Third Avenue, there are mansions that run into the millions with household incomes over $100,000. Solidly upper middle to upper class without question.
It's rude to you because you're trying to misconstrue what I'm saying. Bay Ridge is established because it has never been dumpy. It's always been a clean, safe neighborhood, with plenty of restaurants and bars so it is established in that it doesn't need to gentrify. I don't know what isn't clear about that. I could say the same thing about several other Brooklyn neighborhoods that are relatively diverse like Midwood. Midwood is an established neighborhood, solidly middle class overall and safe, and while there isn't much in the way of nightlife, it certainly doesn't need to gentrify. Now go on ahead and say it's rude of me to describe Midwood that way.
Bay Ridge east of Third Avenue is indeed more blue collar, but west of Third Avenue, there are mansions that run into the millions with household incomes over $100,000. Solidly upper middle to upper class without question.
A household income of $100,000 in NYC is not considered upper middle class.
It is solidly middle class. Especially for a family with kids. Bordering on working class in NYC.
It's rude to you because you're trying to misconstrue what I'm saying. Bay Ridge is established because it has never been dumpy. It's always been a clean, safe neighborhood, with plenty of restaurants and bars so it is established in that it doesn't need to gentrify. I don't know what isn't clear about that. I could say the same thing about several other Brooklyn neighborhoods that are relatively diverse like Midwood. Midwood is an established neighborhood, solidly middle class overall and safe, and while there isn't much in the way of nightlife, it certainly doesn't need to gentrify. Now go on ahead and say it's rude of me to describe Midwood that way. .
Midwood can gentrify and it will gentrify one day.
It is just one neighborhood south of (and cheaper than) Kensington, and Kensington is gentrifying.
It's rude to you because you're trying to misconstrue what I'm saying. Bay Ridge is established because it has never been dumpy. It's always been a clean, safe neighborhood, with plenty of restaurants and bars so it is established in that it doesn't need to gentrify. I don't know what isn't clear about that. I could say the same thing about several other Brooklyn neighborhoods that are relatively diverse like Midwood. Midwood is an established neighborhood, solidly middle class overall and safe, and while there isn't much in the way of nightlife, it certainly doesn't need to gentrify. Now go on ahead and say it's rude of me to describe Midwood that way.
Bay Ridge east of Third Avenue is indeed more blue collar, but west of Third Avenue, there are mansions that run into the millions with household incomes over $100,000. Solidly upper middle to upper class without question.
I don't understand how "established" became a code word for white. Some people here love to draw the race card. Give me Bay Ridge any day over "Industry City".
A household income of $100,000 in NYC is not considered upper middle class.
It is solidly middle class. Especially for a family with kids. Bordering on working class in NYC.
I didn't say $100,000. I said OVER $100,000. Stop reading what you want to read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshanarose
Midwood can gentrify and it will gentrify one day.
It is just one neighborhood south of (and cheaper than) Kensington, and Kensington is gentrifying.
What do you call gentrifying exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullandre
I don't understand how "established" became a code word for white. Some people here love to draw the race card. Give me Bay Ridge any day over "Industry City".
Neither did I but as you said people love to draw the race card.
lol at Midwood gentrifying. You're a fool. Will Borough Park gentrify too?
That's what I said. Midwood has always been a middle class neighborhood. Neighborhoods that are poor, industrial and/or lack amenities gentrify. I think she is confusing gentrification with appreciating.
That's what I said. Midwood has always been a middle class neighborhood. Neighborhoods that are poor, industrial and/or and lack amenities gentrify. I think she is confusing gentrification with appreciating.
Firstly for homeowners in Midwood, I would put them solidly toward the upper middle class range. When you're house is worth $1MM+, there's no way you're simply middle class. Many of the houses in Midwood aren't mortgaged.
Secondly, the orthodox Jewish community in Midwood isn't going anywhere. One, because there is nowhere else for them to go in NYC and two, many inherited or bought their houses 20, 30, or 40 years ago.
I'd also like to say that many NYC'ers who earn "middle class" wages aren't middle class when you take their net worth (mostly housing) into account. Many NYC'ers are upper middle class even if they don't want to admit it. There are many who inherited property in desirable neighborhoods or bought before the huge run up in prices (before the mid 2000's).
At my last job there was a gentleman from maintenance who was making around $40k/year. His wife worked as a home health aide so she was probably making $30K max. However, they bought a corner property in Marine Park for a little under $500K (when he bought his house he was making around $65k/year) and now it's worth somewhere around $1.5MM. If you just look at their wages, they're middle class. If you're financially literate, you realize they're not really middle class at all.
Let me put this another way (and I have seen so many examples of this). There are people who've inherited property in NYC. Even if they, as a household, make $70K but have no rent or mortgage (just property taxes + utility bills), they're not middle class because their spending power is on par with that of the upper middle class.
NYC has a high COL because of housing costs. If you remove that, it's no more expensive than any other part of the US. In fact, in many ways it's cheaper.
Last edited by wawaweewa; 12-16-2017 at 10:47 PM..
Firstly for homeowners in Midwood, I would put them solidly toward the upper middle class range. When you're house is worth $1MM+, there's no way you're simply middle class. Many of the houses in Midwood aren't mortgaged.
Secondly, the orthodox Jewish community in Midwood isn't going anywhere. One, because there is nowhere else for them to go in NYC and two, many inherited or bought their houses 20, 30, or 40 years ago.
I brought up this very thing in another thread and Shoshanarose tried to refute it, but it's true. The Jewish parts of Midwood have money. If you scroll over those areas for data, the average median income is anywhere from $120,000 - 150,000. If your housing costs are low, you can do very well with that income and up, and most of those people do not live flashy. They invest and are frugal, so their money continues to grow. They will drive a Toyota instead of an Audi, a Range Rover or a BMW, and they are not at all embarrassed to negotiate. I do business with a Rabbi and have for several years. He lives in Borough Park and has sent me business via referrals over the years, but this man will not stop until he gets the lowest price possible out of me, and I know he has inheritance and so on from when he lived in Europe, so he is definitely comfortable.
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