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You can spend time there but I considered living in Bushwick so I did my research to know what I'm talking about and still have friends there and frequent the area. It still has a ways to go. I'm not sure what you consider "pretty gentrified" anyway.
Of course it is cheaper. It's been an industrial dump for years. Given how expensive most of Brooklyn is these days, it was bound to become more expensive, so that isn't saying much. Bay Ridge starts in the 60s, so if you get off at the 68th street station, you're in Bay Ridge, one subway stop from Sunset Park. Not exactly a huge difference in terms of being that much close to Manhattan. Technically deep into Bay Ridge is Fort Hamilton, but that whole area (from the 60s down) is generally considered Bay Ridge in simple terms.
I understand it's not your cup of tea but the Northwest part of Bushwick is pretty gentrified by most people's standards. Have you seen it recently?
But Sunset Park starts in the 20s, which is considerably closer than the 80s or 90s. Also I didnt imply that it was some huge difference like Williamsburg and East New York.
That's definitely not working class, that's twice the average HHI
I know, and I understand that it's middle class for the U.S., for a family say, of 4, to earn $100,000 a year. But for a family in NYC it's barely middle class.
Let's say they have two children of the same gender (to make things easier). So they will need a 2 bedroom apartment at minimum (two different gender kids in theory they would need a 3 bedroom apartment).
How much does a 2 bedroom apartment cost to rent in most outer borough neighborhoods?
Let's say you need $2000 a month to rent most 2 bedroom apartments in this city. You will need a minimum of $80,000 to even be approved for the apartment.
And that's still a big chunk of the family income.
For a 3 bedroom apartment: maybe $2300 or $2400 or so?
x 40 that makes $96,000
lol at Midwood gentrifying. You're a fool. Will Borough Park gentrify too?
Please no name-calling.
Borough Park is quite inexpensive to rent in, and would likely gentrify as well, except - from what I have learned on this forum - lots of people don't like to live in Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods, so it may not gentrify very quickly.
That's what I said. Midwood has always been a middle class neighborhood. Neighborhoods that are poor, industrial and/or lack amenities gentrify. I think she is confusing gentrification with appreciating.
Neighborhoods can also gentrify, going from middle class to upper class/higher income.
Astoria was never so poor and it gentrified, right?
What about Greenpoint?
Sunnyside and Woodside are gentrifying.
Clinton Hill was always middle class and it is super gentrified now.
I know, and I understand that it's middle class for the U.S., for a family say, of 4, to earn $100,000 a year. But for a family in NYC it's barely middle class.
Let's say they have two children of the same gender (to make things easier). So they will need a 2 bedroom apartment at minimum (two different gender kids in theory they would need a 3 bedroom apartment).
How much does a 2 bedroom apartment cost to rent in most outer borough neighborhoods?
Let's say you need $2000 a month to rent most 2 bedroom apartments in this city. You will need a minimum of $80,000 to even be approved for the apartment.
And that's still a big chunk of the family income.
For a 3 bedroom apartment: maybe $2300 or $2400 or so?
x 40 that makes $96,000
Barely middle class.
I guess it really depends on the housing situation. A couple with no kids could comfortably live off 100k, though.
Yes I believe so.
Why do you say that part can gentrify but not the rest of Midwood?
I did not say the rest of Midwood couldn't gentrify. But that section is closest to Manhattan, and seems to be poorer than the Jewish part of Midwood. I don't know if I should call it the Jewish part of Midwood though, since lots of Asians and Hispanics live there as well.
And I agree with your other comment that a middle class neighborhood can gentrify.
I brought up this very thing in another thread and Shoshanarose tried to refute it, but it's true. The Jewish parts of Midwood have money. If you scroll over those areas for data, the average median income is anywhere from $120,000 - 150,000. If your housing costs are low, you can do very well with that income and up, and most of those people do not live flashy. They invest and are frugal, so their money continues to grow. They will drive a Toyota instead of an Audi, a Range Rover or a BMW, and they are not at all embarrassed to negotiate. I do business with a Rabbi and have for several years. He lives in Borough Park and has sent me business via referrals over the years, but this man will not stop until he gets the lowest price possible out of me, and I know he has inheritance and so on from when he lived in Europe, so he is definitely comfortable.
What kind of "inheritance" does he have from Europe? Where in Europe did he live?
You do understand that it's classic anti-semitism to discuss Jews and "wanting the lowest price", i.e., "being cheap", right?
Of course there are nonwhite family neighborhoods, that's my point
As far as rents go, there's not a big disparity anymore
Agreed. If anything I think Sunset Park may be more expensive than Bay Ridge.
What I'm saying is that saying a neighborhood is a "family neighborhood" and then only naming white neighborhoods, is implying that only white neighborhoods are "family neighborhoods", or "established neighborhoods", or whatever you're trying to say.
I guess it really depends on the housing situation. A couple with no kids could comfortably live off 100k, though.
Oh for sure.
A household income of $100,000 for a 2 person household (couple with no kids) is solidly middle class, even in NYC.
It's not considered upper middle class in NYC though (it likely would be in the rest of the country though)
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