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Anyone with common sense who was around in the 1980's or 1970's for that matter would say the same thing. It isn't a matter of looking down or whatever on anyone. If you had no business being in a dangerous area why would you go there?
That doesn't negate my point about the countless thousands of NYers who had to live & work in such places and were overwhelmingly the victims of such rampant criminality. What about those people? It sounds like you lived in a safer area then the poverty-stricken masses who had no choice but to reside in these "dangerous areas". How many of them (perhaps a mother who lost a son due to gang violence or drugs, or a police officer who had deal day in and day out with the unrelenting tide violent crime ) do you think are on here waxing euphoric about "dem good old days", eh?
Then again, using your logic, all those impoverished crime victims simply lacked "common sense".
I got a better one for you. See Rubble Kings. It's s documentary that will show you the conditions of how all those people who lacked "common sense" were forced to live in.
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Originally Posted by BugsyPal
Yes, it was dangerous as heck going into the East Village in the 1980's. But if you knew how to handle yourself, had some street smarts it was no worse than anyplace else down town. It didn't hurt that some of the best parties and so forth were in the East Village.
If you knew how to handle yourself? You mean, like Bernie Goetz was forced to? What a wonderful time and place that must have been.
And you're still talking East Village exclusively. Again, what about the tens of thousands of ordinary NYers who couldn't afford to leave the poverty pockets they lived in? Why do you think no one who lived in Bed-Stuy or the South Bronx in the 1970s or 80s is on here posting reminiscences?
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Originally Posted by BugsyPal
No one looked down on anyone who lived in the EV, Harlem. South Bronx, Bushwick, Bedford Stuyvesant or whatever. You just stayed the heck out unless you had a reason for being over there. NYPD would tell you (say if they came across some clueless white kid or whatever walking around parts of Harlem or EV obviously looking as if he didn't belong). In fact that was one of the tools in NYPD's kit to spot those looking for drugs or otherwise up to no good.
And the people who couldn't stay out of those places?
One man's "Good ol' days" is another man's hell. It's contingent solely on who and where you are. My Grandmother, for example, used to get all dreamy-eyed and nostalgic remembering the 1930s, the decade she grew up in. She used to go on and on about how cheap everything was back then, and how you could leave your doors unlocked at night, and so on...
However, just imagine being a Jew in Germany during the 1930s, or a Ukrainian in Stalinist USSR, or a Black in the Jim Crow South. I'm sure their recollections of the 1930s were very different than that of my grandmothers. Do you see the point I'm making?
There's nothing wrong with getting all teary-eyed remembering the 1970's. You were obviously young and full of verve. But those are just YOUR individual experiences. In the macro, the crime & poverty rates in the city back then suggests a very different reality for many other people.
I was away from NYC for about 10 years and those were a very transformative time for NYC. I remember going to Times Square and thinking "What happened here?" Gone were all the XXX shops and sights I was used to seeing. Alphabet City? It's a hip and trendy spot for young people with loads of money now?
And it made me sad. Not that I want crime and sleaze all over. But it was familiar, I guess.
And it makes me sad that almost all of Manhattan is only affordable for the rich. There isn't much room for the middle class or others.
Be careful what you wish for. This city was an open, puss-oozing sore back then. The hollow-headed fools who get all dewy-eyed and nostalgic about the "good old days" always conveniently forget the exponentially higher violent crime rates, filthy, barely functional subway system, and the near insolvency of the city. I often wonder if any of these dopes would still get all weak-in-the-knees reminiscing about this city in 1970s had a loved one of theirs been taken from them by one of the countless criminals who were seemingly free to infest and terrorize our streets with impunity back then.
Trust me, if this city even remotely resembled the Thunderdome-esque cesspit it was between 1975-1990, none of these skinny-legged, soy-sucking, carbon-footprint-reducing, artisan-chick-pea-salad-eating, low-testosterone, beta male hipsters would be able to walk the streets of neighborhoods like Bed-Stuy, Bushwick or Williamsburg. There were large swaths of this city that were simply uninhabitable, including many sections that are considered highly fashionable today.
Of course, for those who are really serious about wanting to live in a place with that kind of gritty, retro urban charm, they're free to move to places like Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis, or even Chicago, but, of course, they won't. Or better yet - simply re-elect that thoroughly incompetent poltroon De Blassholio to a couple of more terms as mayor. This city will be an overflowing, Third World spittoon in no time. The sad irony is that those same people who love conjuring up these feverish masturbatory fantasies about how wonderful and special this city was back in the 1970's will be the first to flee it like their gluten-free hummus was on fire should it ever return to that state.
Goddamn. This post is the heat incarnate. Was there, can verify as accurate.
You, sir, have great potential future as a writer of right-wing pulp polemics.
That's a sincere compliment by the way.
I wish I was an adult in the 1980s because then I could have made a more accurate comparison on how much more violent street crime I've seen in the 1980s compared to modern times. With that being said, its been a really long time since I've witnessed a random act of violence on the street.
I guess it has for me, too. I'd probably have to go back to the 1990s for an example.
NYC in the 1980s had cheap apartments, but you get what you pay for. Landlords did not invest money in maintenance. Buildings were in various states of decay, and in those days not only did landlords not repair they also did nothing about pest control. Landlords typically lived in Long Island, Jersey, or Westchester and just collected the rent.
There's a reason why the feds and the state government created tax credits to get people to invest in real estate.
The other thing is in those days, I remember as a little boy many of the trains were not even air conditioned. In those days they never repaired the train lines, meaning conditions got worse and worse to the point where the Manhattan bridge was in various states of closure for 16 years!
I also remember the very aggressive smoke, smoke drug dealers and panhandlers of Washington Square Park. Giuliani cleaned them out and he was right to do so! I don't agree with randomly stopping people who are simply going about their business (that is unconstitutional, unreasonable search and seizure), but and Bloomberg were right to do SOME of the things they did. Having people around who want to force you to give them money or force you to buy weed from them is not a good thing (those guys were pretty aggressive).
The fact that the city had so many nightclubs back then is because deindustrialization had left huge vacancies in real estate, particularly former warehouses. This was urban disinvestment, and this was not good for the city finances.
The fact that buildings get repaired today, the MTA has money to upgrade itself and even expand, is because the city attracted a tax base and investors. Nothing wrong with that.
And yes people who lived in Brooklyn or the Bronx or other rough or formerly rough don't miss that era.
NYC in the 1980s had cheap apartments, but you get what you pay for. Landlords did not invest money in maintenance. Buildings were in various states of decay, and in those days not only did landlords not repair they also did nothing about pest control. Landlords typically lived in Long Island, Jersey, or Westchester and just collected the rent.
There's a reason why the feds and the state government created tax credits to get people to invest in real estate.
Actually lived in an apartment built in the early 1900's and it cost me a few hundred a month. It was clean and the super took care of issues pretty quickly. The only thing that required continuous maintenance was the elevators. Good thing we had two.
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The other thing is in those days, I remember as a little boy many of the trains were not even air conditioned. In those days they never repaired the train lines, meaning conditions got worse and worse to the point where the Manhattan bridge was in various states of closure for 16 years!
The old blue interior ones and the multi-color ones had AC (I doubt you're old enough to remember the ones with blade fans on the ceilings). Every once in awhile one of the cars didn't and usually during the summers it was shut down so the doors wouldn't open.
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I also remember the very aggressive smoke, smoke drug dealers and panhandlers of Washington Square Park. Giuliani cleaned them out and he was right to do so! I don't agree with randomly stopping people who are simply going about their business (that is unconstitutional, unreasonable search and seizure), but and Bloomberg were right to do SOME of the things they did. Having people around who want to force you to give them money or force you to buy weed from them is not a good thing (those guys were pretty aggressive).
The center entrance on Macdougal Street was known for the dealers. Anyone common to the area knew to avoid that path if they didn't want to be approached by dealers. They were pretty mellow and not aggressive.
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The fact that the city had so many nightclubs back then is because deindustrialization had left huge vacancies in real estate, particularly former warehouses. This was urban disinvestment, and this was not good for the city finances.
So what. It was great to have so many choices. It was the reality of the city that never sleeps.
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The fact that buildings get repaired today, the MTA has money to upgrade itself and even expand, is because the city attracted a tax base and investors. Nothing wrong with that.
Whatver
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And yes people who lived in Brooklyn or the Bronx or other rough or formerly rough don't miss that era.
You have no clue to the amount of freedom we had then compared to now.
I was there remember? It was no where near *that* bad; you make NYC sound like some favela like Cajueiro.
Yes, there was crime and yes, things were far more gritty than today, but still largely if you stayed out of certain places things were pretty much as they are today.
By the 1980's The city was slowly crawling out of the wreckage from 1970's near bankruptcy. Crime was largely influenced by the crack/cocaine epidemic that was sweeping much of the USA so nearly every large urban area was going through much of the same issues.
East Village? You crossed Avenue A at your own risk. Harlem? Forget about it for the most part. Bronx (ditto).
I was too young for the 70's early 80's but the mid to late 80's I remember well. And it was not all that bad. Not great but not exactly God awful either. Yeah there were some really bad areas but if you could stay away from those, and used some basic street smarts and common sense, NYC was a pretty fun place to be. I miss the old, quirky, small stores that were more prevalent back then that gave NY it's own unique feel. Course maybe the 70's were a different story but by the late 80's you could sense things start to turn around. Of course, YMMV depending where you lived, worked and hung out in. But from my perspective, NYC was okay. Just like NYC is okay now. You'll find good and bad in any era.
Last edited by Aeran; 04-22-2017 at 03:47 PM..
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