Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-10-2017, 05:34 PM
 
3,357 posts, read 4,619,400 times
Reputation: 1897

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
I had to take a typing class in high school......I think it was mandatory for me as I was in the Business House.

And Far Rock had a great nursing program, people used to use that as a boost to work at St. Johns, but now - forget it! NYC public school was not as bad as many make it out to be! And I've been to public and private, I see the benefit of both - I was just fortunate enough to get a nice mix........
Nursing classes in high school - that's cool. I wonder if any public high schools have nursing programs now. I had all of those classes (home ec, typing etc) in middle school actually, but now everyone is preparing for the state tests in middle school, so no time for much learning that doesn't bring up test scores!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-10-2017, 05:36 PM
 
31,761 posts, read 26,716,490 times
Reputation: 24631
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodel View Post
I think DeBlasio's specifically looking to integrate only certain districts (those with a certain amount of diversity but whose schools are still segregated). Many districts don't even have much diversity to begin with, so they can't be integrated without travelling. In my opinion, the city should try to encourage residential economic diversity however they can. Without residential diversity, school integration is really a pie in the sky goal.

Staten Island is only about 10% or less African-American, and even then a majority of that population is on the North Shore. NYC tried busing back in the day for certain high schools (Susan Wagner had the largest zone on the Island; reaching deep into both North and South Shores), it wasn't a total success.


Late as the 1980's SW had race riots or conditions bad enough to warrant NYPD arriving to "escort/protect" African American students boarding buses that would take them down Manor Road back to the North Shore areas of West Brighton and so forth. In the cafeteria blacks largely kept to their side and whites their own, thus rarely did the sides meet.


Before NYC removed zoning for high schools the public ones on South Shore (New Dorp, Tottenville) were largely if not totally white. The private schools? Forget about it; Farrell, Notre Dame, Staten Island Academy, nearly all the ones on South Shore or Mid-Island, Catholic of whatever were all or mostly White.


Now let's look at some of the current top rated public elementary schools on the Rock:


P.S. 5 in Huguenot - one percent "Black"


Ps 5 Huguenot - Staten Island, New york - NY | GreatSchools


P.S. 35 the "Clove Valley" school, a bit better; eight percent "Black"


Ps 35 The Clove Valley School - Staten Island, New york - NY | GreatSchools


And so it goes...


Pick one, nearly all the top rated public elementary schools on SI are on the South Shore or Mid-Island. Equally nearly all have small percentages of African American children. The largest is that new one recently opened near the SIE in Graniteville.


Staten Island Elementary Schools, 1-25 - Staten Island, NY | GreatSchools


The only way to "address" such "inequality" is to start busing students around. That is simply *NOT* going to happen on SI. Many of the parents simply won't have it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2017, 05:40 PM
 
33,886 posts, read 47,082,096 times
Reputation: 14184
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodel View Post
Nursing classes in high school - that's cool. I wonder if any public high schools have nursing programs now. I had all of those classes (home ec, typing etc) in middle school actually, but now everyone is preparing for the state tests in middle school, so no time for much learning that doesn't bring up test scores!
Oh yeah, Far Rock was well known for its nursing program.....the kids in the Nursing House had to wear uniforms......thats how you knew what house they were in, they were respected! And the stigma with male nurses was out the window, fellas were respected too!

-Alum FRHS '99
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence

Forum TOS: //www.city-data.com/forumtos.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2017, 06:19 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,892,174 times
Reputation: 10119
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Staten Island is only about 10% or less African-American, and even then a majority of that population is on the North Shore. NYC tried busing back in the day for certain high schools (Susan Wagner had the largest zone on the Island; reaching deep into both North and South Shores), it wasn't a total success.


Late as the 1980's SW had race riots or conditions bad enough to warrant NYPD arriving to "escort/protect" African American students boarding buses that would take them down Manor Road back to the North Shore areas of West Brighton and so forth. In the cafeteria blacks largely kept to their side and whites their own, thus rarely did the sides meet.


Before NYC removed zoning for high schools the public ones on South Shore (New Dorp, Tottenville) were largely if not totally white. The private schools? Forget about it; Farrell, Notre Dame, Staten Island Academy, nearly all the ones on South Shore or Mid-Island, Catholic of whatever were all or mostly White.


Now let's look at some of the current top rated public elementary schools on the Rock:


P.S. 5 in Huguenot - one percent "Black"


Ps 5 Huguenot - Staten Island, New york - NY | GreatSchools


P.S. 35 the "Clove Valley" school, a bit better; eight percent "Black"


Ps 35 The Clove Valley School - Staten Island, New york - NY | GreatSchools


And so it goes...


Pick one, nearly all the top rated public elementary schools on SI are on the South Shore or Mid-Island. Equally nearly all have small percentages of African American children. The largest is that new one recently opened near the SIE in Graniteville.


Staten Island Elementary Schools, 1-25 - Staten Island, NY | GreatSchools


The only way to "address" such "inequality" is to start busing students around. That is simply *NOT* going to happen on SI. Many of the parents simply won't have it
.
No one is going to bus students to Staten Island. The city as a whole has had demographic changes due to immigration and gentrification. Hispanic immigrants performance vary greatly, so you can't assume all Hispanics are like project Puerto Ricans (no offense to poor Puerto Ricans, I am critiquing the stereotype). In Black neighborhoods you do have middle class people, plus there are Black immigrants and a number of Africans become doctors, or get advanced degrees, etc. Plus places like Harlem have growing white and Asian populations. You're stuck in the 70s when it comes to conditions on the ground in NYC.

Places like upper Manhattan and much of Brooklyn are no longer one race, nor are they all poor, and by integrating the people who live in neighborhoods is ultimately how you integrate neighborhoods. No one is suggesting busing kids out to Staten Island, and no parent would want their kids to be bused out to Staten Island.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2017, 06:43 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,892,174 times
Reputation: 10119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebyz View Post
This is so true about the other countries. They can get away doing that because there's no racial gap and the poor I think are content with being given the opportunity to rise up.

As for the those vocational training classes, since it was before my time, if those classes were disproportionately given to blacks how come most of the high paid union workers I see are white? Also I see an overrepresented amount of eletrician/plumbing/heating/a.c. vans in Manhattan with SI addresses.
You have to realize until the 60s and 70s (when those vocation classes were given) one could legally discriminate on the basis of race. So disproportionately giving those classes to black people didn't necessarily mean they would get them. There's also the fact that even when people aren't racist you get jobs and opportunities through people you know. So if you lived in a poor segregated black neighborhood, you are LESS likely to know people who can refer you to and hook you up with better jobs. The definition of marginalization is pushing a group literally to the margins of society. and this affected a lot more than black people years ago.

Educated women in the US used to only be allowed to be teachers and nurses, and working class women just got to be cashiers, domestics, or seamtresses. A lot of women were not in the work force. The women's right movement change that. Openly gay men were NOT hired at regular man jobs that paid well, all they could do is work in the floral shop, be a hairdresser, stewardess, waitress, nurse, or some of the few positions limited to women. Gay activists and changed that.

Today, if you're from a Muslim country people could make certain assumptions and stereotypes due to your religion.

Definitely due to changes in the law and public policy there is absolutely no denying things have gotten better for broad categories of people, but at the same time we cannot deny historic discrimination against entire categories of people, including women who outside of the home were only allowed to do a few jobs and fewer jobs requiring an education until the 60s and 70s.

That's one thing that has a huge effect on education. Old school educated women became teachers and since it was basically all they could do, remained teachers. Today young women who teach will often do it for a few years, and go out and get a PhD and become a professor, go to law school, or go do some other career. (The same holds true for male teachers).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2017, 07:11 PM
 
31,761 posts, read 26,716,490 times
Reputation: 24631
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
No one is going to bus students to Staten Island. The city as a whole has had demographic changes due to immigration and gentrification. Hispanic immigrants performance vary greatly, so you can't assume all Hispanics are like project Puerto Ricans (no offense to poor Puerto Ricans, I am critiquing the stereotype). In Black neighborhoods you do have middle class people, plus there are Black immigrants and a number of Africans become doctors, or get advanced degrees, etc. Plus places like Harlem have growing white and Asian populations. You're stuck in the 70s when it comes to conditions on the ground in NYC.

Places like upper Manhattan and much of Brooklyn are no longer one race, nor are they all poor, and by integrating the people who live in neighborhoods is ultimately how you integrate neighborhoods. No one is suggesting busing kids out to Staten Island, and no parent would want their kids to be bused out to Staten Island.


There you go again, posting a response bearing no reality to the OP.


No one is talking about busing elementary school students *TO* the Rock, but around it such as from West Brighton to Mid-Island or even South Shore.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2017, 09:10 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,892,174 times
Reputation: 10119
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
There you go again, posting a response bearing no reality to the OP.


No one is talking about busing elementary school students *TO* the Rock, but around it such as from West Brighton to Mid-Island or even South Shore.
Busing does no good and policy makers haces moved away from it. It could even be considered discriminatory towards minority kids as by busing them to further away whiter schools it makes their commuting times much longer and who really enjoys that. Just as no one is going to settle for mere tolerance (it's very different from genuine acceptance), policy makers these days realize that they will feel the heat from something stupid like busing. Genuinely giving people access to the same opportunities in housing and in the workforce, is how you integrate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2017, 09:59 PM
 
983 posts, read 927,520 times
Reputation: 1252
I can't speak for the whole city, but here in harlem, even though there has been a serious influx in white and asian people (nowadays, I see a white person almost every day!), in addition to more educated black people from elsewhere, it seems most of them are young single people with no kids who will probably leave when they get a promotion. If the demographics changes among young 20-30 year olds that doesn't mean the pubic school demographics have changed or will change anytime soon either. I imagine it's similar in other gentrifying neighbhorhoods with poor public schools in areas like crown heights where there are tons of educated white yuppies with no kids.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2017, 11:05 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,892,174 times
Reputation: 10119
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammax View Post
I can't speak for the whole city, but here in harlem, even though there has been a serious influx in white and asian people (nowadays, I see a white person almost every day!), in addition to more educated black people from elsewhere, it seems most of them are young single people with no kids who will probably leave when they get a promotion. If the demographics changes among young 20-30 year olds that doesn't mean the pubic school demographics have changed or will change anytime soon either. I imagine it's similar in other gentrifying neighbhorhoods with poor public schools in areas like crown heights where there are tons of educated white yuppies with no kids.
A lot of articles have been written about white families who are now raising kids in gentrified or gentrifying parts of Brooklyn or the Upper West Side (formerly ghetto) and the various integration schemes, resistance to the integration, and the overall direction that's going. So the same thing will repeat in Harlem, and I certainly have seen white parents with their kids in Harlem, white kids going to school in Harlem, and white kids playing in the facilities in Riverbank State Park.

So it's already been shown that those whites who like living in the city and who are successful here are willing to stay even when they have kids.

This is a different generation, and people of younger generations (particularly professionals) don't necessarily have the same ideas as older generations. Once upon a time, it was assumed as you moved up financially you should have a house. I'm in no rush to buy a house, and things like mowing the lawn are not only tedious chores, they are responsibilities I have no time for.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2017, 11:18 PM
 
11,597 posts, read 12,636,246 times
Reputation: 15730
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
I had to take a typing class in high school......I think it was mandatory for me as I was in the Business House.

And Far Rock had a great nursing program, people used to use that as a boost to work at St. Johns, but now - forget it! NYC public school was not as bad as many make it out to be! And I've been to public and private, I see the benefit of both - I was just fortunate enough to get a nice mix........
Not to get O/T, but Far Rock HS used to offer automotive repair, as did many NYC high schools and it had driver's ed. In the 1980s, it was supposed to have some sort of engineering concentration, which of course was just PR as it was rapidly slipping down the ranks of NYC high schools.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:57 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top