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Old 03-20-2008, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 3,947,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
apv

no doubt, I agree with you. It can be done, but that does not negate the fact that there is a PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY. All things are not equal and when you are dealing with such drastic levels of inequality it makes insulating yourself in order to achieve that much harder.

Prime example, I had a friend who was dyslexic and never got help for it because of the poor level of education where we were. Had another friend with mental issues who should have gotten help. Again we weren't in a place that could offer him that. These are extreme cases but I can tell you, when I was teaching it was plain to see that depending on the school you were at, it would determine the quality of education you received. I met one kid, he was 15 yrs old and couldn't read or write. But again the schools he had gone to were ridiculous, his moms was a immigrant and worked hard to keep them in a apartment. So he just slipped through the cracks. Actually there were a couple of these kids who couldn't really read or write. Does this happen at more affluent schools? not so much.
it is less prevelent in affluent schools because affluent people won't tolerate bad conditions like those in less affluent areas, people in affluent areas generally provide better support for their children than those in poorer areas.
this is a cultural issue, the hard part for a person from a lower class area is to break away from what appears to be normal and stive to do better than those around him who have surrended. the resources are there for those who are willing to fight the battles necessary. It isn't an easy task but it is not an impossible task
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:07 AM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 17,324,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
it is less prevelent in affluent schools because affluent people won't tolerate bad conditions like those in less affluent areas, people in affluent areas generally provide better support for their children than those in poorer areas.
this is a cultural issue, the hard part for a person from a lower class area is to break away from what appears to be normal and stive to do better than those around him who have surrended. the resources are there for those who are willing to fight the battles necessary. It isn't an easy task but it is not an impossible task
ummm I sort of don't agree on that one. I have seen a lot of lower income parents who wanted to get involved but they work a heck of a lot more (more hours) than a more affluent parent. There ability to attend meetings and get involved was far more curtailed than the affluent counter part. So that could account for the involvement issues.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 3,947,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
ummm I sort of don't agree on that one. I have seen a lot of lower income parents who wanted to get involved but they work a heck of a lot more (more hours) than a more affluent parent. There ability to attend meetings and get involved was far more curtailed than the affluent counter part. So that could account for the involvement issues.
sure problems like that can be an issue, but for every hard working caring parent there is one who doesn't care, don't prepare their children for school and that is part of the cycle the good people are battling. I am sure you've seen kids come to school, dirty, unfed, not dressed properly and from homes where they get no parental support.
unfortunately resources have to be diverted from the education mission to assist those issues and it takes away from the few kids who are prepared to learn, it's a terrible problem with no clear solution. nonetheless if someone has a strong desire to get ahead the resources are there for the taking, it just means that those in bad situations have to battle harder, but it is not impossible
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Harlem, NY
307 posts, read 2,505,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
Really, you don't see it that way do you? Have you worked as a teacher? Have you worked with the school board? have you worked with economically and socially disadvantage populations? Have you worked as a teacher in a school in a socially disadvantage area and then worked in a school that was in a affluent area? have you done any of that? Cause I can tell you, I have and the level of education, quality of teachers, programs, and opportunities in schools across economic boundaries are not equal my friend. That is true across America, not just NYC.

You are absolutely right. The public schools in the low income districts are bad and need support.
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 3,947,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRaZy View Post
You are absolutely right. The public schools in the low income districts are bad and need support.
instead of looking for others to fix what is wrong, the people there need to make the efforts to change things. or they can do what the rest of us who have elevated our lives have done, get educated or trained for a decent job, work hard to be able to afford to get away from there and find a place where life isn't as much of a challenge
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Queens
842 posts, read 4,302,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
instead of looking for others to fix what is wrong, the people there need to make the efforts to change things. or they can do what the rest of us who have elevated our lives have done, get educated or trained for a decent job, work hard to be able to afford to get away from there and find a place where life isn't as much of a challenge
Don't depend on the system to work in your favor. If anything, the system is to be exploited and used to the max by those who need it.

Get an education. It is the key to survival
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:36 PM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 17,324,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
instead of looking for others to fix what is wrong, the people there need to make the efforts to change things. or they can do what the rest of us who have elevated our lives have done, get educated or trained for a decent job, work hard to be able to afford to get away from there and find a place where life isn't as much of a challenge
People like you are part of the problem though. You want to get on and get out. I respect Guywithacause for the very reason he tries to make a change. You are right, people need to do something but I think you forfeit your right to complain if you high tailed it out first chance you got.
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
4,437 posts, read 7,651,124 times
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'Work hard and you'll succeed' has got to be one of the most simplistic philosophies out there. And people who adopt to it have a lack of understanding and appreciation of the complex issues surrounding poverty, racism, classism, etc. And that's unfortunate.
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 3,947,632 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
People like you are part of the problem though. You want to get on and get out. I respect Guywithacause for the very reason he tries to make a change. You are right, people need to do something but I think you forfeit your right to complain if you high tailed it out first chance you got.
you betcha I high tailed it out of there, friends murdered for stupid reasons, other friends dead from drugs, other ones in jail, no place for me and my family to be. Let someone else save those people from themselves, I voted with my feet and I've never felt bad about it. You want to save the world, good for you, but you have no standing to comment on anyone else
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 3,947,632 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman View Post
'Work hard and you'll succeed' has got to be one of the most simplistic philosophies out there. And people who adopt to it have a lack of understanding and appreciation of the complex issues surrounding poverty, racism, classism, etc. And that's unfortunate.
It is indeed simplistic and sometimes it is the small things that can be done that make it easier to accomplish the more complex problems. poverty, racism and all that are just excuses to perpetuate the victim mentality, any black kid who tries to excel by doing well in school, by avoiding the street scene gets ostricized by his peers, you've never heard of those kids being called oreos and told to stay black? that is just more of the ghetto trying to hold a kid with smarts down, it is a tough cycle to break out of but it can be done.
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