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Extreme commuting is definitely nothing new, the necessity for some is what's becoming more commonplace...We need that Hyperloop yesterday...
I had a professor who commuted every week by plane between Chapel Hill and NYC so yeah, it's not new -- but yes, it's becoming even something lower-wage earners like myself practice now!
As for hyperloops, I'm afraid that will never happen -- mostly due to the land rights involved (eminent domain would have to be used on a "China-scale" and that'll never happen here)...existing transportation networks should suffice but the MTA is underfunded by politicos and robbed by unions on top of that.
Anyway, thanks to modern technology, at least I'm able to enjoy nature videos and other documentaries during my slog of a commute -- so it's not a total loss!
People who do that by choice better a. be making a LOT of money b. or have no choice. I would NEVER do that by choice. In fact, my ideal would be to walk to work. I think all future cities should be planned as walkable communities with very little commuting involved.
I'll take "B" for $48K!
Most folks' ideal commutes would be walking. Though I have to thank modern technology for being able to pass my extreme commute watching some nature documentary!
Anyway, "walkable" can mean different things to different people...motorists seem to think anything not exactly in front of the door (of the school, the restaurant, their homes) isn't "walkable" at all!
And it keeps raising the question I have every time I hear about these maneuvers. If all of the poor and working class are pushed out of cities, who is going to do the dirty work? Are the rich going to revert to the days of "Upstairs, Downstairs," where they have live-in staff to do everything for them? On what planet do people think that cities can sustain themselves without a working class?
Robots -- the word itself comes from the Slavic cognate for "worker," after all!
And, not to be too cynical about it but...the working classes are doing just fine with their evermore extreme commutes, TBH! Yeah folks grumble but there won't be a revolution over it.
Extreme commuting is definitely nothing new, the necessity for some is what's becoming more commonplace...We need that Hyperloop yesterday...
The Hyperloop is cool, but it’s mostly sensible for fairly long distances so that means there still needs to be something decent for that last mile (or last several miles) both coming and going from the end pairs.
What is the most common sense solution is the one that virtually every large city in the developed world has figured out as a workable solution—it’s creating unified commuter and regional rail networks that through-run in the urban core and serve as secondary rapid transit systems within that core. It’s not nearly as catchy as the hyperloop, but it’s extremely effective and would leverage a ton of existing infrastructure.
It talks about people with 2 hour commutes each way just within NYC, for example, Bronx to JFK Airport, mostly for jobs that are under $15 per hour.
Airport jobs? That's what they keep pushing at the homeless shelters. It's amazing how many people working security, cleaning, retail, etc. return to a shelter after work!
The Hyperloop is cool, but it’s mostly sensible for fairly long distances so that means there still needs to be something decent for that last mile (or last several miles) both coming and going from the end pairs.
Actually, with enough stops hyperloops would be fine on their own. But the land rights involved assure hyperloops will never happen. Besides, it'll just be another terrorist target (thanks, Momo!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
What is the most common sense solution is the one that virtually every large city in the developed world has figured out as a workable solution—it’s creating unified commuter and regional rail networks that through-run in the urban core and serve as secondary rapid transit systems within that core. It’s not nearly as catchy as the hyperloop, but it’s extremely effective and would leverage a ton of existing infrastructure.
Well, that's evolution for ya -- a scattershot approach.
I still believe that our present existing transit networks would suffice if only they were properly funded and not robbed by ruinous union contractual giveaways -- but they'll never be properly funded nor left alone by rapacious public unions so we'll just have to keep suffering.
It's what you want in an ideal worker anyway: forbearance!
Actually, with enough stops hyperloops would be fine on their own. But the land rights involved assure hyperloops will never happen. Besides, it'll just be another terrorist target (thanks, Momo!).
Well, that's evolution for ya -- a scattershot approach.
I still believe that our present existing transit networks would suffice if only they were properly funded and not robbed by ruinous union contractual giveaways -- but they'll never be properly funded nor left alone by rapacious public unions so we'll just have to keep suffering.
It's what you want in an ideal worker anyway: forbearance!
Hyperloops aren’t great technology for having many frequent stops, that’s just not how that works. Whatever hyperloop stations you’re using for these supercommutes, the chances are you will need something else for the rest of the trip. Having to build and maintain the infrastructure for keeping the low pressure needed for Hyperloop vactrains isn’t sensible for short distances with more frequent stops as the wind resistance factor doesn’t become that much of an issue for lower speeds that most conventional commuter rail would run at and the savings from the lowered air resistance doesn’t make sense against the infrastructure that would need to be built nor would commuter rail be able to take much advantage of the high ceiling for maximum cruising speed that the vactrain system would support since the closer spacing of commuter rail would mean most of the time will be spent accelerating and decelerating for each stop. Where the Hyperloop makes sense is for longer city core distances where it’s competitive and better than longer high speed rail stops or regional flight paths.
I agree that there is a lot more that the current transit network can handle with fairly little new heavy construction. However, the rapaciousness of the tri-state area unions are only one portion of the issues, and going by the heavily protected transit unions many other cities in developed countries have, unions in and of themselves make little sense as “the” primary cause of our transit issues. There is no simple singular factor for why transit in US cities is so bad compared to its peer cities in the developed countries and even the ones that do have to do with the transit unions, many of those factors are not in the control of the unions. Take for example the radical notion of affordable national healthcare which the US does not really have (and which any attempt at having a truly workable solution has been repeatedly blocked by politicians backed by pharmaceutical, medical devices, and insurance lobbyists). Transit unions in the US bargain for this with the MTA and it's tacked on to the budget for MTA for this purpose and costs quite a bit. Meanwhile, many transit agencies in developed countries do not have to carry the costs of providing health insurance within the agency since all citizens already have nationalized healthcare. A good chunk of the work that MTA transit workers do has a good deal more possible danger than that of most other occupations have in the city and MTA has to provide the funding for this health insurance. Were there something as fundamental as a nationalized single payer healthcare system, then suddenly MTA will have freed up a huge portion of its budget and its cost-effectiveness will on paper suddenly compare a bit more favorably to municipal transit agencies in other developed countries.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 11-29-2017 at 02:07 PM..
Where do Middle Eastern go when they get priced out of cities. Why is the focus always on blacks and hispanics and they have poor whites in cities as well?
Hyperloops aren’t great technology for having many frequent stops, that’s just not how that works.
You're perfectly right -- I had a different scale in mind and didn't note that explicitly.
See, given the context of our remarks -- "extreme commutes" -- I was thinking about inter-city travel with hyperloops...traveling past several municipalities, actually...so whereas you may have been thinking in terms of traveling to NYC from Jersey, I had in mind commuting from (rural) MA or OH, say, to NYC....
If that doesn't make any sense, forget it -- I was just going off on my own tangent, then!
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
I agree that there is a lot more that the current transit network can handle with very little new heavy construction. However, the rapaciousness of the tri-state area unions are only one portion of the issues, and going by the heavily protected transit unions many other cities in developed countries have, unions in and of themselves make little sense as “the” primary cause of our transit issues.
Yes, I don't hold the unions entirely or even primarily responsible -- but the genie's long been let out of the bottle (many early labor organizers specifically did not want unions for public employees, easily recognizing the dangers)....
You're perfectly right -- I had a different scale in mind and didn't note that explicitly.
See, given the context of our remarks -- "extreme commutes" -- I was thinking about inter-city travel with hyperloops...traveling past several municipalities, actually...so whereas you may have been thinking in terms of traveling to NYC from Jersey, I had in mind commuting from (rural) MA or OH, say, to NYC....
If that doesn't make any sense, forget it -- I was just going off on my own tangent, then!
Yes, I don't hold the unions entirely or even primarily responsible -- but the genie's long been let out of the bottle (many early labor organizers specifically did not want unions for public employees, easily recognizing the dangers)....
What you're saying totally makes sense; thanks for the clarification. With that, the main point still stands that there's the last mile or last several miles commute on both ends of the stops--that is still going to be needed (unless robots have taken everyone's jobs and there is no commuting anymore; or we're all dead). The infrastructure for the Hyperloop is going to be expensive though, so a rural stop anywhere won't be very likely.
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