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Just want to point out that baked ziti is actually a close cousin of a real Italian dish or class of dishes known as "pasta al forno" which can be found--quite commonly so!--in southern Italy. Also, spaghetti and meatballs DOES exist in Italy, but you would probably only find the dish made with very small meatballs and only on the table at someone's home in Southern Italy, not a restaurant. It's not "restaurant" food per se, but it is home cooking. There are a lot of Italian food purists who are correct about the differences between Italian and Italian American food, but it's easy to see where Italian American food comes from (heavily influenced by Southern Italy), and how it was adapted to fit the American palate.
Pierrepont7731: Sono di origini siciliane e ho vissuto in Italia per tantissimi anni (inoltre passo almeno 3 mesi in Italia ogni anno). Quando si parla di cibo.... beh, si puo' dire che sono al corrente! :P La parmigiana di pollo forse non esiste, ma in Italia c'e' la parmigiana eccome: ad esempio c'e' la parmigiana di melenzane che e' un piatto classico molto gradito da tanti. Gli italo-americani hanno cambiato i piatti per usare cio' che si vendeva nei mercati americani; e' una cosa che succede con tutte le cucine del mondo. La cucina italo-americana non e' la cucina italiana, bensi' una variazione oppure una "continuazione" della tradizione culinaria del sud, regione che ha "importato" tantissimi italiani negli Stati uniti.
To the OP: there is marvelous Italian restaurant called "Il Pepolino" that I really like. I worked for an Italian company and whenever they were in NY we would take them there. It's owned by Italians.
I like NICK's on 94th and Second. (not sure if it is Italian, or Italian-American.) They have "family style" dishes meant for sharing in a nice atmosphere. Food is always good. THey have a huge wood fired "forno" in the back and my favorite dishes is the veal and eggplant "al forno."
Last edited by Kefir King; 09-26-2017 at 09:11 AM..
I like NICK's on 94th and Second. (not sure if it is Italian, or Italian-American.) They have "family style" dishes meant for sharing in a nice atmosphere. Food is always good.
*LOL* Family-size usually screams *Italian-American*...
Go to the kitchen and all you'll see is MEXICANTS cooking. Not a italian Nana
Depends on the restaurant. The Italian ones usually *will* get an Italian chef from *Italy* along with baristas. They know folks in the old country and have them come over. Have a few Italian friends who I know personally who have worked in the business as waitresses or whatever. Tarallucci e vino tends to be like this.
Most of them will be in Manhattan. Some are as follows:
Il Corso (Northern Italian)
Bocca (Roman)
Cacio e Pepe (Roman - Same owners as Bocca)
Cacio e Vino (Sicilian)
Tarallucci e Vino (Northern Italian - several locations - same owner - knows me by name )
These are all good. Some will cost more but such is life. Most of these places import products directly from Italy. Bocca also gets some ingredients from the farmers' market. All *authentic* Italian (regular portions as you would find in Italy) and no Italian-American garbage. Am sorry, but *chicken parm* is *not* authentic. Can find several other *authentic* places particularly along Second Avenue. East Village used to be a *heavy* Italian neighborhood, and thus can still find *lots* of authentic restaurants here.
You don't need to be sorry, that's ok. Its an authentic Italian-American dish. Italian-American cuisine is a well-established cuisine now with roots more than a century old and which flourished among the immigrant populations in NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago and Pittsburgh, among other cities. Its derived more from southern than northern Italian cuisines, and is based on the different availability of ingredients in the new world. To call Italian-American cuisine "garbage" is just a silly attempt at food snobbery which only marks you as an ignoramus.
I'm European, and only became an American citizen a couple of years back. But I still find it hilarious how so many reach for Europe as somehow being the apex of their cultural credentials.
Just want to point out that baked ziti is actually a close cousin of a real Italian dish or class of dishes known as "pasta al forno" which can be found--quite commonly so!--in southern Italy. Also, spaghetti and meatballs DOES exist in Italy, but you would probably only find the dish made with very small meatballs and only on the table at someone's home in Southern Italy, not a restaurant. It's not "restaurant" food per se, but it is home cooking. There are a lot of Italian food purists who are correct about the differences between Italian and Italian American food, but it's easy to see where Italian American food comes from (heavily influenced by Southern Italy), and how it was adapted to fit the American palate.
Pierrepont7731: Sono di origini siciliane e ho vissuto in Italia per tantissimi anni (inoltre passo almeno 3 mesi in Italia ogni anno). Quando si parla di cibo.... beh, si puo' dire che sono al corrente! :P La parmigiana di pollo forse non esiste, ma in Italia c'e' la parmigiana eccome: ad esempio c'e' la parmigiana di melenzane che e' un piatto classico molto gradito da tanti. Gli italo-americani hanno cambiato i piatti per usare cio' che si vendeva nei mercati americani; e' una cosa che succede con tutte le cucine del mondo. La cucina italo-americana non e' la cucina italiana, bensi' una variazione oppure una "continuazione" della tradizione culinaria del sud, regione che ha "importato" tantissimi italiani negli Stati uniti.
To the OP: there is marvelous Italian restaurant called "Il Pepolino" that I really like. I worked for an Italian company and whenever they were in NY we would take them there. It's owned by Italians.
Certo, come no. E' quello che sto dicendo. Quindi, mi capisce bene paesano (anch'io sono di origini siciliane!) Anche in Italia, ci sono dei piatti che sono diversi. Per esempio, c'è la polenta... Si trova nel Nord ed anche nel Sud! Communque, la parmigiana di pollo qui fa schifo. Sempre una questione della qualità del cibo. Am switching back to English for the non-Italian speakers. We were discussing how some dishes that I stated aren't Italian... Can find a *variation* of those things in the old country. My biggest gripe is the quality of some Italian-American dishes. Italian-American food can be great provided the quality of the ingredients is good. Eating at Olive Garden is a disgrace. The waiters don't know anything about the cuisine nor the wine. If they're going to serve *grissini* (break sticks) do it the right way. Serve something of quality! Italian food is simple, so simplicity means focusing on the amazing ingredients (preferably organic). This is sort of a given in Italy, but not so here in the U.S, where eating *organic* can be seen as *being snobby*.
Yep. I am a dual U.S./Italian citizen, and consider myself equally Italian AND equally American.
I hate the food snobbery of so many Italian Americans, i.e. it's ONLY good if it's "authentic." Do you think every Chinese dish you eat in the U.S. is authentic? Or Korean? Or Indian? Or Mexican? No. It's natural that cuisines are adapted to the palate of the country they are brought to, as well as to the ingredients available. Italian American food is its own thing, with hundreds of years of history and a rich culinary tradition dating back to Italy. I think EVERYONE knows that Olive Garden isn't even real Italian American food. Italian American food is served in the homes of the descendants of the Italian diaspora.
Chicken parmigiana is not some blasphemy! It's essentially an Italian dish, made with American ingredients. Eggplant parmigiana is made in almost the EXACT same way in Italy, but with eggplant swapped in for chicken.
You don't need to be sorry, that's ok. Its an authentic Italian-American dish. Italian-American cuisine is a well-established cuisine now with roots more than a century old and which flourished among the immigrant populations in NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago and Pittsburgh, among other cities. Its derived more from southern than northern Italian cuisines, and is based on the different availability of ingredients in the new world. To call Italian-American cuisine "garbage" is just a silly attempt at food snobbery which only marks you as an ignoramus.
I'm European, and only became an American citizen a couple of years back. But I still find it hilarious how so many reach for Europe as somehow being the apex of their cultural credentials.
Am in disagreement. As was stated, there is quality Italian-American food, and the garbage you find at Olive Garden or some other fast food place. In fact used to frequent an Italian-American place on the Upper East Side. The food was done the right way and even took some of my Italian friends there to eat. The food here will never be the same as the food in the old country (be it French, Italian, Spanish (from Spain) or what have you), even the *authentic* food. Just the way it is, but what's important is that the food is prepared well, shows respect for the culture and is of quality.
Yep. I am a dual U.S./Italian citizen, and consider myself equally Italian AND equally American.
I hate the food snobbery of so many Italian Americans, i.e. it's ONLY good if it's "authentic." Do you think every Chinese dish you eat in the U.S. is authentic? Or Korean? Or Indian? Or Mexican? No. It's natural that cuisines are adapted to the palate of the country they are brought to, as well as to the ingredients available. Italian American food is its own thing, with hundreds of years of history and a rich culinary tradition dating back to Italy. I think EVERYONE knows that Olive Garden isn't even real Italian American food. Italian American food is served in the homes of the descendants of the Italian diaspora.
Chicken parmigiana is not some blasphemy! It's essentially an Italian dish, made with American ingredients. Eggplant parmigiana is made in almost the EXACT same way in Italy, but with eggplant swapped in for chicken.
It's not food snobbery. It's understanding that there is a *difference* and not lumping all food together as the same. Of course the Chinese food here is Chinese-American. Hello!! The food was changed for the American palate. Anyone who doesn't know that has been smoking too much. As was stated, portion sizes are different, ingredients are different and so on. For some American who has never been to Italy, it's important that they know the difference and are educated so that if they take a trip there, they know what to expect. Lord knows our culture has been crapped on for so long. Cannot have the food bastardized as well.
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Have to go to an Italian café to get something close to a macchiato found in Italy, and have to specify that you want it served *dry*. In Italy that is pretty much the only way a macchiato is served, at least from my experiences when I lived there and frequented Italian *bars* (coffee shops here in the States).
