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Outright white Latinos voted for him because the Democrats were much easier on immigrants than the Republicans. Cubans helped him win Florida.
With that said a white hispanic who married a white American, unless the family takes steps to preserve cultural links will be just another white American. So some white hispanics deliberately assimilate. Others don’t because bilingualism and plurilingualism can be important. Latinos if any race who become educated in the states can do business in Spanish speaking nations and many go back and forth.
This isn’t something you can reduce to a simple issue, and a Latino of any race with savings in US dollars is rich when they go back to their home nations.
Of course not, but the question was do Hispanics have an easier time moving into white areas as opposes to blacks and I tried to answer that.
Sorry if this hurts but must be said; African Americans have low rates of homeownership in NY. Worse many of the areas they did "take over" have gone from solid working or middle class to straight up hoods.
Canarsie, large sections of West Brighton, Port Richmond, etc....
Now this is not obviously universally true, but there you are.
That being said there does seem to be a difference between blacks who have been here for generation versus the newly arrived Afro-Caribbean immigrants. The latter are some of the hardest working people known. The take raising their children (and education) seriously, value home ownership and take care of their property. They also work hard in order *NOT* to rent and own...
Man, the Jamaicans and Haitians that I work with at my nursing facility work 2 jobs. They own homes in Southeast Qns, and Canarsie. Quite a few have investment properties in Pennsylvania. They buy in PA because it's close to home, and they can throw a tenant out on their ass if they do not pay rent, unlike the liberal laws that protect dead beat tenants here in NYC. The CNAs that I work with, a good number of their children are in medical school studying to become Medical doctors. Hey, their working hard bettering their lives, while the African Americans at my job are pushing a mop, or washing dishes in the kitchen. My wife is Bajan, and her family worked hard for what they have. Her Grandmother just found out her Brownstone in Crown Heights is now worth over a million. Not bad for a working class senior citizen who came here with nothing.
If you are referring to Italian-Americans, well that is correct to an extent. But then again Italian-Americans are known for moving into tight knit areas of persons of mostly or a majority of that background.
Have said this before, people just don't know or realize how much of Staten Island was dominated by Italians, even areas of the North Shore you don't today associate such as New Brighton, West Brighton, Port Richmond....
It doesn't take much either to start an exodus. By the 1970's and 1980's people were packing up and moving to New Jersey because their street/block/area was getting "too dark".
Much of the Bayridge/Bensonhurst Italians moved onto South Shore or Mid-Island and would rather die than go anywhere on North Shore except for very special reasons.
Meanwhile thanks to development and other reasons South Shore is changing so people are packing up and moving (again) to New Jersey, North Carolina, and so forth. Traffic on 440/Outerbridge, and Route 1/9 at Thanksgiving and Christmas grows more and more intense year after year it seems.
If Italian-Americans are so tight knit, then why have they been selling their houses to Chinese people?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
White conservatives have long been accepting of "white" European Hispanics. Just watch old films from the 1940's or 1930's with whites associating with Argentines and others of South American extraction. Lucille Ball married a Latino (Cuban) and went on to become one of the most powerful couples in the entertainment industry including having a nationwide famous television show. If Desi Arnaz had been a "black" Cuban instead of merely tan, he never would have made it far as he did much less be able to strut around on national television embracing, kissing and married to a white woman. It just didn't happen, no one would have touched that show with a barge pole.
Ditto for Ricardo Montalban, Cesar Romero and so forth. On the female side there is Jo Raquel Tejada (Raquel Welch), and Margarita Carmen Cansino (Rita Hayworth).
Well those are white Latinos, of course it would be different for them.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
When it’s just small numbers of white Latinos they have historically had no problem. A large number of Latinos if all races is a huge problem. I think you and Bugsy are talking about different things. The era Bugsy spoke of when Desi married Lucy the occasional white hispanic had no problem and there was no Latino political identity. People like Desi were seen just like any other white immigrant who would assimilate. When Latinos came in bigger numbers and demanded things like bilingual education and civil rights those things became huge issues for white conservatives. Now they want to shut the door for all Latinos if not all immigrants.
But there was heavy discrimination against mestizos long before they came to the US in large numbers.
That being said, that varied by region and seems to have died down by the the end of WWII.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1
The African American community overwhelmingly, and consistently votes for Black candidates just because they are Black. Even though Obama was half White, he self identified as Black. It worked.
Black people consistently vote for Democrats of any race. They were probably the main reason Doug Jones beat Roy Moore in Alabama.
I don't get why everyone here is talking about white Latinos and race in South America, in my opinion Shoshana's question was clearly about "why do mestizos have an easier time moving into white neighborhoods than black people"? We all know that there are white Latinos and that they could assimilate into white society, that's the same thing as an Italian or Greek descended person being part of white America. I think the question was about Latinos who are visibly nonwhite, which is the overwhelming majority of Latinos in the US as a whole and NYC.
As for Shoshana's question, I find that Latinos (of any race, aside from full fledged black Latinos perhaps) are more likely to assimilate into white American society than black people. I do not mean that they are considered white, but that they might date white people, have white friends, listen to music other than rap, etc. I find that Latinos on average look at things from a different lens than black people, even if they collectively agree on many issues.
Quite a few middle class South Americans have moved into lily white suburban areas on Long Island such as Levittown, for what it's worth.
There is much discrimination from conservative white Americans against Hispanics (just read the Breitbart comment section on any article related to Hispanics), however not all white Americans are like that obviously and not even all conservatives.
And I notice that hardly anyone in NYC, even right leaning people, tend to look down on Mexicans. That's why I think Trump's Mexican hate was manufactured to get the support of middle American white consevatives. Generally, I think that the people with the strongest anti-Latino sentiment tend to be people who live in areas with little to no Latinos and have little to no experience with them.
That being said, I do know some white Latinos and they identify more with mestizo Latinos than non-Hispanic white Americans. There's definitely a pan-Latino identity, which is why we lump in people with vastly different phenotypes as "Latino".
I don't get why everyone here is talking about white Latinos and race in South America, in my opinion Shoshana's question was clearly about "why do mestizos have an easier time moving into white neighborhoods than black people"? We all know that there are white Latinos and that they could assimilate into white society, that's the same thing as an Italian or Greek descended person being part of white America. I think the question was about Latinos who are visibly nonwhite, which is the overwhelming majority of Latinos in the US as a whole and NYC.
As for Shoshana's question, I find that Latinos (of any race, aside from full fledged black Latinos perhaps) are more likely to assimilate into white American society than black people. I do not mean that they are considered white, but that they might date white people, have white friends, listen to music other than rap, etc. I find that Latinos on average look at things from a different lens than black people, even if they collectively agree on many issues.
Quite a few middle class South Americans have moved into lily white suburban areas on Long Island such as Levittown, for what it's worth.
There is much discrimination from conservative white Americans against Hispanics (just read the Breitbart comment section on any article related to Hispanics), however not all white Americans are like that obviously and not even all conservatives.
And I notice that hardly anyone in NYC, even right leaning people, tend to look down on Mexicans. That's why I think Trump's Mexican hate was manufactured to get the support of middle American white consevatives. Generally, I think that the people with the strongest anti-Latino sentiment tend to be people who live in areas with little to no Latinos and have little to no experience with them.
That being said, I do know some white Latinos and they identify more with mestizo Latinos than non-Hispanic white Americans. There's definitely a pan-Latino identity, which is why we lump in people with vastly different phenotypes as "Latino".
Let's not kid ourselves though. Are we talking about lighter skinned Latinos moving to these places, or Latinos that look visibly black? You keep talking about "mestizos" and then taking that and acting as if ALL Latinos of different backgrounds are moving to these white areas. I don't think that's the case. A Latino that looks visibly black is not going to be treated the same as a lighter skinned Latino, despite both being Latino.
It's what I said earlier. The darker skinned Latinos tend to stick to living in Latino areas or black/Latino mixed areas. I often wonder about say Latinos like Dominicans or Puerto Ricans that either look visibly black or are mixed with black and how often they usually just stick to living in black and/or Latino neighborhoods versus moving to white ones.
Most of the Latinos moving into the once (and to a certain extent still) white working class areas of southwest Queens (Ridgewood, Maspeth, Middle Village, Glendale, Woodhaven, Richmond Hill and Ozone Park) tend to be Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. Not the fair skinned and straight haired South Americans.
People do not like Mexicans because it is geographically easier for them to take advantage of the freedoms the United States of America can provide. It has nothing to do with who they actually are, and everything to do with what they are able to take advantage of. No other place has that ability to abuse our system like they do. Maybe Canada does, but they have a very limited population, and an overabundance of resources to support it.
Last edited by ShirlMastic Beach; 12-23-2017 at 09:55 AM..
How can people not know about Argentines if German descent? There was even a huge influx of Germans to Argentina and other South American countries post WW2. Africans were brought to Latin America to be slaves on sugar cane plantations. So was there a history of discrimination? Duh!
For sure, most Argentines are of European descent (only).
The most common descent for Argentines is actually Italian (many Italians historically immigrated to Argentina), followed by Spanish.
Of course there are German and other European-descended Argentines as well.
I don't see why people wouldn't imagine that there are white Latin Americans/Hispanics or that there was racism in Latin America.
Just as North America was colonized by Europeans, South America was also colonized by Europeans.
So just as there are white/European-descended people in North America, there are white/European-descended people in South America.
Let's not kid ourselves though. Are we talking about lighter skinned Latinos moving to these places, or Latinos that look visibly black? You keep talking about "mestizos" and then taking that and acting as if ALL Latinos of different backgrounds are moving to these white areas. I don't think that's the case. A Latino that looks visibly black is not going to be treated the same as a lighter skinned Latino, despite both being Latino.
It's what I said earlier. The darker skinned Latinos tend to stick to living in Latino areas or black/Latino mixed areas. I often wonder about say Latinos like Dominicans or Puerto Ricans that either look visibly black or are mixed with black and how often they usually just stick to living in black and/or Latino neighborhoods versus moving to white ones.
I'm not talking about black Latinos, I'm talking about mestizo or indigenous Latinos.
I guess.
I think classically Bay Ridge has long felt blue collar, regardless of the income.
Back in the day, it is where wealthy people built estates. I think Shore Road has a different vibe than Fifth Avenue.
I would say Sunset Park also has a working class feel as well. Sheepshead Bay.
Things don't really feel blue collar anymore at all. My grandmother had a house in BR and in a few days, three Chinese families put in offers with significant (>500K) cash down. Nothing about that gives me a blue collar/working class vibe.
Most of the Latinos moving into the once (and to a certain extent still) white working class areas of southwest Queens (Ridgewood, Maspeth, Middle Village, Glendale, Woodhaven, Richmond Hill and Ozone Park) tend to be Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. Not the fair skinned and straight haired South Americans.
As if Dominicans and Puerto Ricans aren't fair skinned with straight hair? Yes, most are mixed with black, and some can be straight up black looking with black features and dark skin, but I have met plenty of light skinned Dominicans and Puerto Ricans too, and I'd venture to say that they move into the white working class areas with less issues than darker skinned Ricans and Dominicans or ones that visibly don't look mixed but clearly look black (think David Ortiz - he looks like a mix of Native American - features wise, mixed with African - features wise and skin color), but without looking at him carefully, they would assume he was just black.
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