Priced out of Manhattan (Peru: tenant, quality of life, living)
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I believe I already responded to this. I am not interested in exchanging personal disrespect (something to which people regularly resort here when they have no argument), and obviously the quality of Parkchester is not "validated" by any resident being white (including me), but it IS validated by people with advanced education living there (it is irrelevant that it is me; I'd rather have many other Parkchester residents validating the quality of Parkchester by their education). The fact that I am white only matters if someone right now is considering Parkchester but wonders if he/she would be the only white person there (ie, he/she wouldn't - as I said, Parkchester is all-inclusive).
Re educational levels in Parkchester, about one-third of adults residing there have less than a high school education (yes, shocking, and I do hope that will change), but also one-third have a bachelor's degree or higher, and that includes the 10% who have university degrees higher than bachelor's (which percent doesn't even include me since I do not reside there yet). I think the latter DOES validate quality of a neighborhood (and has nothing to do with me personally - for the purpose of this discussion, I am just a part of a statististical figure. Again, whoever can even remotely get an idea that I come on this forum to "validate" myself is a sorely pathetic individual. It would be a sad day when I would have to seek personal validation from the regulars on this forum :-).
Interestingly, I am visiting someone right now, and the song "Don't Go Chasing Waterfalls" by TLC just came up on their iPod when I finished typing the above. Parkchesterites are indeed more and more of the people who got the message of that beautiful song.
We can rationalize it all we want, but white people moving in to Parkchester, either the rentals or the condos, is going to drive up rents in Parkchester.
And poor people are going to be priced out of their rentals.
If they haven't already.
When one addresses these issues in reductionist ways, it's a presentation of an argument that is not entirely intellectually honest. It creates black hats and white hats, when the issue is not nearly that simple. It might make people feel good, but it solves nothing, because addressing it that way means you aren't addressing the problem and instead are just creating a false scape goat. Calling it "rationalizing" is shorthand for saying, "I can't be bothered with the detail, because it doesn't fit my narrative."
I think it's offensive when white people deny that they are gentrifiers.
Don't be surprised if the people of color in your new neighborhood aren't THRILLED to see you there (especially the renters in the neighborhood).
I think it's offensive when white people deny that they are gentrifiers.
Don't be surprised if the people of color in your new neighborhood aren't THRILLED to see you there (especially the renters in the neighborhood).
I agree. She is clearly in denial. Parkchester is fairly mixed but still mainly black and brown. I do see some whites there, but not many and I don't think the old-timers would care to see too many whites moving in.
I think it's offensive when white people deny that they are gentrifiers.
Don't be surprised if the people of color in your new neighborhood aren't THRILLED to see you there (especially the renters in the neighborhood).
There are already white people in The Bronx, and I don't mean places like Riverdale and Country Club. If I'm not mistaken, there are plenty of Albanians living among black and Hispanic people.
White people moving to nonwhite neighborhoods in large numbers is definitely gentrification, however I don't think white people have a moral obligation to not move into minority neighborhoods. But I do think people should avoid overpaying when moving to a new neighborhood, because that directly contributes to higher rents.
I think it's offensive when white people deny that they are gentrifiers.
Don't be surprised if the people of color in your new neighborhood aren't THRILLED to see you there (especially the renters in the neighborhood).
I moved to a highly non-white neighborhood (not sure of the stats) and I don't care if I'm seen as a gentrifier or not. One thing I know is that when I moved here 10 years ago, A LOT of the non-white people seemed to have more assets/money than I did at that time. Like owning houses and being able to afford those Colombian and Argentinian steak dinners at nice restaurants all the time.
So maybe I should see those well-off Latinos as the gentrifiers, but since I don't think in those terms, it doesn't really occur to me except when I see the discussion on this forum.
Also I can't remember a single time in 10 years that anyone has given me what I perceived to be a dirty look in my neighborhood, so I guess my color isn't an issue. Or perhaps not all people of lower means are as resentful and angry as some may think.I think I may be lucky to live in a neighborhood where, in general, people are kind to one another, no matter what their native language is or their skin tone.
We also have a few gang related issues around here (Jackson Heights), as was mentioned somewhere on this thread about Parkchester, but it doesn't seem to have affected the property values. (Many NYC neighborhoods have a gang presence, but it doesn't mean you can perceive it when walking around-- you might only know about it like I do, by reading local news). One bedrooms are now going for $450K and 2-3 bedrooms from $600K to over a million. It's New York. I think people understand that there are going to be downsides to any neighborhood. They buy or rent where they can afford, after weighing all the pros and cons like transit options, housing stock, $ per square foot, neighborhood vibe, etc.
I moved to a highly non-white neighborhood (not sure of the stats) and I don't care if I'm seen as a gentrifier or not. One thing I know is that when I moved here 10 years ago, A LOT of the non-white people seemed to have more assets/money than I did at that time. Like owning houses and being able to afford those Colombian and Argentinian steak dinners at nice restaurants all the time.
So maybe I should see those well-off Latinos as the gentrifiers, but since I don't think in those terms, it doesn't really occur to me except when I see the discussion on this forum.
Also I can't remember a single time in 10 years that anyone has given me what I perceived to be a dirty look in my neighborhood, so I guess my color isn't an issue. Or perhaps not all people of lower means are as resentful and angry as some may think.I think I may be lucky to live in a neighborhood where, in general, people are kind to one another, no matter what their native language is or their skin tone.
We also have a few gang related issues around here, as was mentioned somewhere on this thread about Parkchester, but it doesn't seem to have affected the property values. (Many NYC neighborhoods have a gang presence, but it doesn't mean you can perceive it when walking around-- you might only know about it like I do, by reading local news). One bedrooms are now going for $450K and 2-3 bedrooms from $600K to over a million. It's New York. I think people understand that there are going to be downsides to any neighborhood. They buy or rent where they can afford, after weighing all the pros and cons like transit options, housing stock, $ per square foot, neighborhood vibe, etc.
I know some Puerto Ricans from Bushwick and they're not resentful about the presence of white people. I think that as long as you're not a stereotypical white yuppie who calls the police about people smoking weed (if people like this even exist), then people won't have a problem with you on an individual level.
And Bushwick has many people from Mexico and Ecuador, who in many cases, have not been there much longer than white people if at all.
And gangs in Jackson Heights? I'm surprised but it can't be too big of a deal because Jackson Heights is pretty safe overall.
Of course, many minorities are successful, and not just Asians. The South American community overall is not doing too bad, and there are many middle class and higher black people in Brooklyn and Queens.
I moved to a highly non-white neighborhood (not sure of the stats) and I don't care if I'm seen as a gentrifier or not. One thing I know is that when I moved here 10 years ago, A LOT of the non-white people seemed to have more assets/money than I did at that time. Like owning houses and being able to afford those Colombian and Argentinian steak dinners at nice restaurants all the time.
So maybe I should see those well-off Latinos as the gentrifiers, but since I don't think in those terms, it doesn't really occur to me except when I see the discussion on this forum.
Also I can't remember a single time in 10 years that anyone has given me what I perceived to be a dirty look in my neighborhood, so I guess my color isn't an issue. Or perhaps not all people of lower means are as resentful and angry as some may think.I think I may be lucky to live in a neighborhood where, in general, people are kind to one another, no matter what their native language is or their skin tone.
We also have a few gang related issues around here (Jackson Heights), as was mentioned somewhere on this thread about Parkchester, but it doesn't seem to have affected the property values. (Many NYC neighborhoods have a gang presence, but it doesn't mean you can perceive it when walking around-- you might only know about it like I do, by reading local news). One bedrooms are now going for $450K and 2-3 bedrooms from $600K to over a million. It's New York. I think people understand that there are going to be downsides to any neighborhood. They buy or rent where they can afford, after weighing all the pros and cons like transit options, housing stock, $ per square foot, neighborhood vibe, etc.
Many Colombian and Argentinian view themselves and are perceived as white. The context of gentrification is different between moving into an hispanic neighborhood given hispanic isn't a race and one that might have an african american population for obvious reasons that your not mentioning.
Many Colombian and Argentinian view themselves and are perceived as white. The context of gentrification is different between moving into an hispanic neighborhood given hispanic isn't a race and one that might have an african american population for obvious reasons that your not mentioning.
I don't know any Colombians who refer to themselves as white.
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