Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I misstyped. In that context of that post, I was arguing no fortune 500 major tech companies are headquartered in NYC, and the closest one is IBM in Westchester.
Yes, obviously fortune 500 companies in a number of other sectors are headquartered in NYC.
Well, okay then. Instead of going back and forth and telling her she needs to read better, you could’ve just said this earlier.
Yes but my mother had legal segregation and all of the “whites only”, “don’t talk back to the white person or get lynched” problems that come with that life. I contend that any black person living in the Deep South during that time had a much harder time.
The system is indeed messed up but at some point people have to stop making excuses or using the system as the excuse as to why they can’t do better. It’s almost like my parents said to themselves “hey, this system is messed up...I don’t like this life, what can I do to make things better for myself?”
I don't disagree with you on any count. I just like to inject facts in discussion when I see a lot of people throwing out erroneous information; CD posters do that a lot when it comes to Public Ed in general. Most of what they "know" to be truth is simply a successful propaganda campaign stemmed from the report "A nation at risk" which has largely been discredited.
And back to something regarding Amazon. I am 100% sure no way in hell those educated tech workers will put their kids in the schools in the Bronx. They are way too informed to do that. Most are not dumb enough that they can't do a simple comparison of price vs what you get.
Maybe, but educated tech workers can often afford private school, a scant few of them are dedicated bleeding heart liberals (at least in NYC) who have put their kids in NYC public schools even if they aren't very good, and many, many of them do not have school age children. That's a decent cross-section of people who would be more likely to live in the Bronx near work if Amazon sets up shop in the borough. All of them will be in Parkchester, of course.
Legal segregation isn't even comparable to self segregation where a black family chooses to buy a house in Jamaica with horrible schools for 400k vs a 2 bedroom coop in Bayside which has higher performing elementary schools than wealthy suburbs for 250k. Just look at where people want to move to in this forum. Many actually think a coop in the Bronx under 200k is a deal. Then they b*tech and whine about segregation expecting to somehow get bused over to a great area where families both rich and poor are willing to scrafice more for their kids and it shows up in the kids' grades.
I can tell you for sure that mass busing doesn't work. Look what happened when they unzoned all the high schools. Schools that were formerly top 100 national are now down in the dumps. So it's not the schools its the people and their free hand-outs/poor me mentality that destroys schools.
And back to something regarding Amazon. I am 100% sure no way in hell those educated tech workers will put their kids in the schools in the Bronx. They are way too informed to do that. Most are not dumb enough that they can't do a simple comparison of price vs what you get.
Wow, where does one begin with this? I'll keep it simple. People live where they can afford and what makes sense in their particular circumstances.
A good school should not be a result of purchasing power.
The suburbs have just as many crappy public schools as the city. People are very, very, very, very uninformed about public education in this forum. They have drunk the koolaid from an insideous propaganda campaign, and those who were best equipped to counter the claims, failed miserably to get that information out into the public.
The best public schools are almost universally situation in the most wealthy areas. The best public schools are better than almost every private school in a marginal area. Private schools in marginal areas perform NO BETTER than their public school counter parts. They have smaller classes, and are often missing broad curriculums. They also have the agency to expel any kid that makes their datapoints look bad. And where do they send them? To public schools who have to take everyone.
The biggest corrolation of success in the education arena is the socio-economic background of the family. Kids from challenging circumstances can do well. But it's a lot harder for to climb a mountain while pulling a big boulder with ropes behind you than climb the mountain with expensive climbing gear. Having a built in handicap does matter and to pretend otherwise, is disingenious.
PS: And yes, parents would never send their kids to a school in the Bronx because Bronx High School of Science isn't one of the most reknowned high schools in all of the city... LOL
PPS: Last time I checked, people send their kids to schools in every borough, regardless of their domicile. This isn't Vilnius in 1939 where people are traveling on foot.
Maybe, but educated tech workers can often afford private school, a scant few of them are dedicated bleeding heart liberals (at least in NYC) who have put their kids in NYC public schools even if they aren't very good, and many, many of them do not have school age children. That's a decent cross-section of people who would be more likely to live in the Bronx near work if Amazon sets up shop in the borough. All of them will be in Parkchester, of course.
Not really, let's say a tech person makes 160k and their spouse makes 140k that's not nearly enough for a top private school. Most would just move to Westchester.
And yes they'll all go to Parkchester where even the elite residents there think the kids are trash. Then they'll all get together to form a campaign to force the city to bus their kids to Riverdale to go to the elemtary schools with real white people. Hopefully that'll increase the real estate values in Parkchester too, not that it's their goal. It's all about the kids, it's the kids I tell ya!
Maybe, but educated tech workers can often afford private school, a scant few of them are dedicated bleeding heart liberals (at least in NYC) who have put their kids in NYC public schools even if they aren't very good, and many, many of them do not have school age children. That's a decent cross-section of people who would be more likely to live in the Bronx near work if Amazon sets up shop in the borough. All of them will be in Parkchester, of course.
OMG. I can't stop laughing. I have been working in Tech for more than 20 years. I went to a SUNY and studied music. I meet a lot of tech people... because, I dunno, you meet a lot in my trade.
I guess for Troglidgytes who think Tech is something "scary" they believe that tech people all come from IVY's and they are all doing bleeding edge work at Facebook and Google. Actually, there are thousands of unsung heros that "keep the lights on" metephorically in all aspects.
The reality is many of the top people in tech don't have formal tech education. Most graduated from college in completely unrelated fields, and even more astounding, they graduated with Liberal Arts degrees or Political Science! I also know a few who have gone to work for Google who never even went to college. They were tinkering with tech from the womb and were building things very early in life. (I'm specifically thinking of a few people I met at the Drupal NYC meetups.)
Tech involves a lot more than Network Engineering and App and Web Development. (The later two have some crossover, but in some cases, are firewalled as far as skills.) There is also UX / UI. (user experience and user intereface.) Analytics. (A combination of math and pychology.) Front end web development. That's a combination of art, computers and coding with various degrees of scripting languages, which is not the same as programming. Database admins. (Those usually do go to computer school.) Project managers. They come from every field and are vital to a good enterprise project. Quality assurance specialists, business analysts. Hardware specialist. There are different kinds of network engineers; some that deal with small networks and some with giant networks with massive data hubs, fiber. (And the knowledge base is complete different.) And none of this includes support staff both in terms of the techie stuff and office operations.
So let's just say, almost everyone's knowledge (that I read on this thread so far) about the kinds of operations Amazon would ever need at a headquarters is far from informed. That and the idea that there is no one present in state, in city that could fill some of those roles. LOL.
PS: Some of the finest schools in NYC, are public schools; are competitive and elite.
Wow, where does one begin with this? I'll keep it simple. People live where they can afford and what makes sense in their particular circumstances.
A good school should not be a result of purchasing power.
The suburbs have just as many crappy public schools as the city. People are very, very, very, very uninformed about public education in this forum. They have drunk the koolaid from an insideous propaganda campaign, and those who were best equipped to counter the claims, failed miserably to get that information out into the public.
The best public schools are almost universally situation in the most wealthy areas. The best public schools are better than almost every private school in a marginal area. Private schools in marginal areas perform NO BETTER than their public school counter parts. They have smaller classes, and are often missing broad curriculums. They also have the agency to expel any kid that makes their datapoints look bad. And where do they send them? To public schools who have to take everyone.
The biggest corrolation of success in the education arena is the socio-economic background of the family. Kids from challenging circumstances can do well. But it's a lot harder for to climb a mountain while pulling a big boulder with ropes behind you than climb the mountain with expensive climbing gear. Having a built in handicap does matter and to pretend otherwise, is disingenious.
PS: And yes, parents would never send their kids to a school in the Bronx because Bronx High School of Science isn't one of the most reknowned high schools in all of the city... LOL
PPS: Last time I checked, people send their kids to schools in every borough, regardless of their domicile. This isn't Vilnius in 1939 where people are traveling on foot.
Who said poor kids can't do well. I grew up poor in NYC going to ghetto schools and me and many of my friends did alright. And from that experience and what I saw why would I want my kids to have the same experience? I remember growing up as a minority in an area that was 90%+ hispanics in elementary school there were like 15-20 black kids in each grade. And for some reason everyone of them were put in special ed making the classes nearly all black. Meanwhile the Asian and white kids were sprinkled along with Hispanic kids that don't act up into their own classes. Geographic segregation is the least of the problems in public schools. Sure the drag down the top blame others mentality does wondrs to your ego/self esteem and perhaps wallet, but busing problems around certainly doesn't solve anything.
Not really, let's say a tech person makes 160k and their spouse makes 140k that's not nearly enough for a top private school. Most would just move to Westchester.
And yes they'll all go to Parkchester where even the elite residents there think the kids are trash. Then they'll all get together to form a campaign to force the city to bus their kids to Riverdale to go to the elemtary schools with real white people. Hopefully that'll increase the real estate values in Parkchester too, not that it's their goal. It's all about the kids, it's the kids I tell ya!
Yea, most people with school age kids would move to Westchester or Connecticut, some can do private or parochial schools in the Bronx. Again though, some would try it with the kids, probably many won't, but many more won't have school age kids anyhow.
Mind you, I think only a fraction of Amazon employees (and their families if they're not a single person household) will opt to live in the Bronx near this hypothetical headquarters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roseba
OMG. I can't stop laughing. I have been working in Tech for more than 20 years. I went to a SUNY and studied music. I meet a lot of tech people... because, I dunno, you meet a lot in my trade.
I guess for Troglidgytes who think Tech is something "scary" they believe that tech people all come from IVY's and they are all doing bleeding edge work at Facebook and Google. Actually, there are thousands of unsung heros that "keep the lights on" metephorically in all aspects.
The reality is many of the top people in tech don't have formal tech education. Most graduated from college in completely unrelated fields, and even more astounding, they graduated with Liberal Arts degrees or Political Science! I also know a few who have gone to work for Google who never even went to college. They were tinkering with tech from the womb and were building things very early in life. (I'm specifically thinking of a few people I met at the Drupal NYC meetups.)
Tech involves a lot more than Network Engineering and App and Web Development. (The later two have some crossover, but in some cases, are firewalled as far as skills.) There is also UX / UI. (user experience and user intereface.) Analytics. (A combination of math and pychology.) Front end web development. That's a combination of art, computers and coding with various degrees of scripting languages, which is not the same as programming. Database admins. (Those usually do go to computer school.) Project managers. They come from every field and are vital to a good enterprise project. Quality assurance specialists, business analysts. Hardware specialist. There are different kinds of network engineers; some that deal with small networks and some with giant networks with massive data hubs, fiber. (And the knowledge base is complete different.) And none of this includes support staff both in terms of the techie stuff and office operations.
So let's just say, almost everyone's knowledge (that I read on this thread so far) about the kinds of operations Amazon would ever need at a headquarters is far from informed. That and the idea that there is no one present in state, in city that could fill some of those roles. LOL.
PS: Some of the finest schools in NYC, are public schools; are competitive and elite.
Right, a lot of the people have no CS or engineering degree and do very well for themselves. A majority do not (obviously, a larger proportion of people who do have those degrees compared to most other industries). There are also lot of programmers who learned their skills in the field, on their own, or through various code bootcamp schools or such. There are a lot of other jobs in tech besides being a developer, but it's also not that hard to learn how to code sufficiently well to get a job. Unless you're a stellar programmer, most valued developers are competent but not great with code but are at least decent at being a functional human being who can work with others.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-24-2018 at 08:23 AM..
Who said poor kids can't do well. I grew up poor in NYC going to ghetto schools and me and many of my friends did alright. And from that experience and what I saw why would I want my kids to have the same experience? I remember growing up as a minority in an area that was 90%+ hispanics in elementary school there were like 15-20 black kids in each grade. And for some reason everyone of them were put in special ed making the classes nearly all black. Geographic segregation is the least of the problems in public schools. Busing problems around certainly doesn't solve anything.
I didn't say they couldn't. I implied that people who are giving poor kids a hard time for being lazy are making assumptions that they are beginning at the same start line.
I don't know when you grew up. I too grew up and went to schools in that manner. That was in the late 70's and 80's. Special ed students were treated terribly. That isn't the case now. They are not segregated, and treated ubiquitously as if a kid with dyslexia has the same needs as a kid with ADD, or a kid with a missing hand. Special Ed services have come a long way. City schools are also very different than they were when I was a kid. They are better maintained is something I immediately noticed. (Not that there aren't any problems.) So I'm not sure you can chaulk up your experiences to NYC public schools and make them the same as today, unless perhaps, you graduated from HS in the past 5 years.
PS: And yes, parents would never send their kids to a school in the Bronx because Bronx High School of Science isn't one of the most reknowned high schools in all of the city... LOL
Bronx High School of Science is a poor example given only 10% of blacks and hispanics are admitted to specialized high schools (majority going to Brooklyn Tech). You might as well consider it a private school for Whites and Asians. There is a similar trend for black and hispanic majoring in computer science. Given the demographics of the city that comprise of 53% black and hispanic there is many people who would not see Amazon as a welcoming sign but rather further gentrification. Obviously someone from a suburb with a better public school system would be excited at the opportunity of swooping down and take a high paying job in NYC while they live confined to their borders in the suburb. It was always designed that way since busing wasn't allowed from urban city to suburbs.
Given the inconsistency of advance math being taught across NYC public school, you can see how some would feel excluded and marginalized. Many parents have to supplement NYC public school education with private tutoring.
Last edited by NYer23; 01-24-2018 at 08:52 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
