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I'd argue that downtown is somewhat relative. In Tokyo for instance, there is no real downtown as it's a decentralized city. The area around Shinjuku Station is as much of a downtown as the area around Shibuya Station, Tokyo Station, Akihabara Station, etc.
That being said, NYC was made in the standard European sense of the core. What constitutes for downtown doesn't have to be what other cities constitute downtowns as. The Financial District is a CBD and it's part of downtown. However, the Village area is hardly a CBD and it is also within the realm of downtown. Midtown is where our, and the world's largest, CBD is.
We don't need to, and generally don't, call midtown downtown as the term is relative. Most cities don't have a concept of midtown either, and often it's in name only and very rare. NYC's midtown is actually the 'middle' of what most consider Manhattan. Atlanta's midtown is really just in name, and to another extent Chicago's Uptown is only but a neighborhood and isn't used to describe its north side.
I haven't been to Tokyo, but I've seen that sort of decentralization in Seoul. In most cities, downtown is the location city hall, as well as most banking/corporate operations. It may be easier to state what isn't downtown than what is.
FWIW: Midtown Atlanta is almost the geographic center of the city and Uptown is one of Chicago's northernmost neighborhoods. While they aren't used the same way they're used in NY, the neighborhood names aren't geographically inaccurate.
Core downtown NYC is everything south of 59th street to Battery Park.
Greater downtown NYC is everything below ~110th Street (or even 125th Street).
Greater NYC metro core (basically skyscraper area of NYC metro) is bounded by 125th St in Manhattan to the North, LIC, Queens to the East, Barclays Center in Brooklyn to the South-East, and Journal Sq. Jersey City, NJ to the south-west.
Huh there may be some disputing the actual boundaries but your assessment is way off.
There is Uptown, Midtown and downtown, if people want to say below Canal is downtown fine but downtown is definitely not 110th street or anywhere in Midtown.
this picture doesn't even include more buildings on the waterfront and in between, and the ones coming:
Yeah it looks like LIC is beating downtown Brooklyn but in a few years it will not be by much since skyscrapers are sprawling all over and all the way upto Atlantic/Barclays center.
Growing up downtown Brooklyn was always the shopping area around Fulton St/Juniors but these days it may cover more ground due to all the expansion of apartment-commercial buildings and shopping areas.
this picture doesn't even include more buildings on the waterfront and in between, and the ones coming:
It's definitely constructed more recently and I saw that report of LIC having added more units since 2010 than any neighborhood in the country with downtown Brooklyn making a top 10 showing, but a fraction of the number. However, wasn't there more skyscrapers in downtown Brooklyn to begin with? I wonder if there's a site that does a total count of the two separately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands
I haven't been to Tokyo, but I've seen that sort of decentralization in Seoul. In most cities, downtown is the location city hall, as well as most banking/corporate operations. It may be easier to state what isn't downtown than what is.
FWIW: Midtown Atlanta is almost the geographic center of the city and Uptown is one of Chicago's northernmost neighborhoods. While they aren't used the same way they're used in NY, the neighborhood names aren't geographically inaccurate.
A lot of people skirt around this by just asking about the central business district which is again tough given that there are two major ones in Manhattan with plenty of businesses in between the two. I think that's why people were saying downtown as a figure of speech to simply include particularly important centers of commerce, entertainment, and government within the city that's not solely residential and a wide swathe of people go into. That's kind of a mouthful though so you just have people saying "downtown".
The thing is, we have several major transportation hubs and several major corporations and business centers since NYC is the hub of several different industries nationally and hosts a huge number of other major institutions such as the UN and several sub parts of that.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-19-2018 at 11:44 AM..
Huh there may be some disputing the actual boundaries but your assessment is way off.
There is Uptown, Midtown and downtown, if people want to say below Canal is downtown fine but downtown is definitely not 110th street or anywhere in Midtown.
When I am talking about downtown, I am not talking about downtown in the NYC sense, I am talking about it in the OP's sense, like how other cities in the country use it to mean CBD.
Here, let me rename it if people are confused:
NYC Central Business District is everything south of 59th street to Battery Park. CBD includes Times Square, Rockefeller Center, Empire State, Hudson Yards, Herald Square, Madison Sq Garden, Union Square, United Nations, World Trade Center, World Financial Center, etc.
Greater NYC CBD is everything below ~110th Street (or even 125th Street). It includes all of the above plus Museum Mile on UES and Columbus Circle, Time Warner Center, Columbia U campus, Lincoln Center on UWS.
Greater NY MSA metro core (basically skyscraper area of NYC metro) is bounded by 125th St in Manhattan to the North, LIC, Queens to the East, Barclays Center in Brooklyn to the South-East, and Journal Sq. Jersey City, NJ to the south-west.
It's definitely constructed more recently and I saw that report of LIC having added more units since 2010 than any neighborhood in the country with downtown Brooklyn making a top 10 showing, but a fraction of the number. However, wasn't there more skyscrapers in downtown Brooklyn to begin with? I wonder if there's a site that does a total count of the two separately.
A lot of people skirt around this by just asking about the central business district which is again tough given that there are two major ones in Manhattan with plenty of businesses in between the two. I think that's why people were saying downtown as a figure of speech to simply include particularly important centers of commerce, entertainment, and government within the city that's not solely residential and a wide swathe of people go into. That's kind of a mouthful though so you just have people saying "downtown".
I'm a New Yorker. I understand Uptown/Downtown/Midtown, and why it's hard for New Yorkers to think outside of those terms. I guess my question is whether or not anyone would include areas like the East/West Village or UWS/UES in a "greater CBD".
If you have been here longer it's easier to define because the boundaries were a little tighter than they are now. Generally downtown was below 23rd street. There were some businesses, but the real employment center in downtown was the Financial District while everything above was just merchants.
Then above 14, it got pretty sketchy and was mostly residential except on Park Avenue. It got denser at 34th street and midtown began around 40th to about central park. Then everything else was uptown.
Boundaries have expanded quite a bit which blur the lines but this is how I understand it.
I'm a New Yorker. I understand Uptown/Downtown/Midtown, and why it's hard for New Yorkers to think outside of those terms. I guess my question is whether or not anyone would include areas like the East/West Village or UWS/UES in a "greater CBD".
I think in any other city, then East/West Village would probably unequivocally be included as part of the CBD since so many businesses and institutions are in that nether region between Midtown and Downtown and it's sandwiched in between. Some people might consider all or parts, the far southern reaches at least, of the UWS/UES as part of the CBD, but I'm not sure why anyone would consider all of it to be unless it's just in awe of density.
I'm a New Yorker. I understand Uptown/Downtown/Midtown, and why it's hard for New Yorkers to think outside of those terms. I guess my question is whether or not anyone would include areas like the East/West Village or UWS/UES in a "greater CBD".
Even New Yorkers should get your point. Is Downtown Brooklyn in Coney Island?
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