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Why is your gut reaction to bring up Obama when we are talking SPECIFICALLY about Trump? Ok, i’ll play. Obama didn’t make infrastructure his priority for a variety of reasons, the first one being that his priority was handling the economic recession. The second being that Obama prioritized healthcare, and a result the country punished him for it and handed him a Republican Congress for his final 6 years. Obama WANTED to do infrastructure, but Republicans wouldn’t work with him unless he unrealistically reduced the deficit. Notice how quickly Republicans stopped caring about the deficit as soon as Trump was elected. They passed the worst possible tax plan for the deficit. Trump specifically campaigned on infrastructure, and he has a Republican Congress. if he wanted to, he could get it done. Unfortunately, Trump’s infrastructure proposals seems to be to privatize everything and that would be a disaster for the country.
Why is your gut reaction to bring up Obama when we are talking SPECIFICALLY about Trump? Ok, i’ll play. Obama didn’t make infrastructure his priority for a variety of reasons, the first one being that his priority was handling the economic recession.
He was in office eight years. He was dealing with the recession for eight years?
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Originally Posted by Astorian31
The second being that Obama prioritized healthcare, and a result the country punished him for it and handed him a Republican Congress for his final 6 years.
So in other words, he did a **** poor job and voters didn’t give him everything he wanted? Okay, got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31
Obama WANTED to do infrastructure, but Republicans wouldn’t work with him unless he unrealistically reduced the deficit. Notice how quickly Republicans stopped caring about the deficit as soon as Trump was elected. They passed the worst possible tax plan for the deficit. Trump specifically campaigned on infrastructure, and he has a Republican Congress. if he wanted to, he could get it done. Unfortunately, Trump’s infrastructure proposals seems to be to privatize everything and that would be a disaster for the country.
So more excuses for Obama while Trump, who also doesn’t have a large enough of a Republican majority of Congress to pass anything is villified.
He was in office eight years. He was dealing with the recession for eight years?
So in other words, he did a **** poor job and voters didn’t give him everything he wanted? Okay, got it.
So more excuses for Obama while Trump, who also doesn’t have a large enough of a Republican majority of Congress to pass anything is villified.
Yea, he did deal with recession and its aftermath for most of his term. Good job! If you know that, then you certainly know that a lot of other developed countries re-entered technical recession several times after initial recovery. We fortunately got out pretty quickly and didn't have to dip back in.
Obama certainly did things that I don't think were great policy, but his biggest failure was the inability to convince people from the other side to go along. The issue with that is it seems like the rationale for why they didn't go along is somehow no longer relevant once they are in power (see: the tax changes and the deficit) when they were formerly massive rallying cries and completely non-negotiable.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 05-11-2018 at 05:32 PM..
There was investment in NYC infrastructure under his administration (though you can argue that MTA did a **** poor job of spending it). There were originally much larger expenditures as part of the stimulus packages, but he wasn't able to push those through.
There was investment in NYC infrastructure? You are going to have to specifically point that out because it must be so tiny that it did practically nothing because NYC infrastructure is shi tter today after eight years of Obama. And “not able to push those through” sounds like more excuses, which of course Trump would never ever be allowed to use.
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
No, he can't, but his party does control both houses. Have you tried looking through his infrastructure bill?
It’s not enough of a majority to approve anything. Why are the democrats against helping NYC infrastructure? They can easily help it pass through if they vote for it too.
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Both of them needed to fix the subways and infrastructure in general in the US. It's part of the job.
Again, Obama had eight years and NYC loved him. He did nothing.
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Health insurance for the first time in a lot of places--not perfect health insurance, but I think scuttling the endeavor rather than working to improve it is a bad idea.
More like saddle a lot of places with burdensome and runaway expensive health insurance that no one is happy with. He basically caused a mess that now someone has to try to fix.
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Obama was also the president in a developed country that had one of the best recoveries from the recession--compared to some, by a long shot. This was with a pretty antagonistic Congress and a long period of the opposing party in control.
Yeah, he gave taxpayer money to fatcat Wall Street. What a difficult feat!
Yea, he did deal with recession and its aftermath for most of his term. Good job! If you know that, then you certainly most know that a lot of other developed countries re-entered technical recession several times after initial recovery. We fortunately got out pretty quickly and didn't have to dip back in.
Other developed countries are not the richest in the world. Historically, the U.S. leaves a recession, it is gone. His second term, the recession was pretty much a non-topic. You are just making excuses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Obama certainly did things that I don't think were great policy, but his biggest failure was the inability to convince people from the other side to go along. The issue with that is it seems like the rationale for why they didn't go along is somehow no longer relevant once they are in power (see: the tax changes and the deficit) when they were formerly massive rallying cries and completely non-negotiable.
So in other words, he wasn’t any good. Glad you admit it.
There was investment in NYC infrastructure? You are going to have to specifically point that out because it must be so tiny that it did practically nothing because NYC infrastructure is shi tter today after eight years of Obama. And “not able to push those through” sounds like more excuses, which of course Trump would never ever be allowed to use.
It’s not enough of a majority to approve anything. Why are the democrats against helping NYC infrastructure? They can easily help it pass through if they vote for it too.
Again, Obama had eight years and NYC loved him. He did nothing.
More like saddle a lot of places with burdensome and runaway expensive health insurance that no one is happy with. He basically caused a mess that now someone has to try to fix.
Yeah, he gave taxpayer money to fatcat Wall Street. What a difficult feat!
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby
Other developed countries are not the richest in the world. Historically, the U.S. leaves a recession, it is gone. His second term, the recession was pretty much a non-topic. You are just making excuses.
So in other words, he wasn’t any good. Glad you admit it.
I believe the lion's share of additional funding was in Fix & Fortify for recovery after Sandy and resiliency programs put in place. There was track work for the Northeast Corridor in general, but the largest component that the feds were moving towards was actually cancelled (thanks to former governor Christie). I would be very happy to see Trump successfully push through more funds though have you actually tried reading through his proposed infrastructure bill? I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that it's a great leap forward for NYC transit even if passed
I don't think the Democrats are against helping NYC infrastructure. I'm not sure why that's the case. I'm afraid that these years is going to be more of the same except this would be happening even during an economic boom period which seems absurd.
I don't think you understand how health insurance was actually received in various parts of the country. It's not they didn't want health insurance; a lot of people were actually happy to get health insurance for the first time. It's just that many did not directly tie Obamacare as health care and that there were complaints about its individual cost, but this isn't the same as wanting to actually scuttle it. What was promised during Trump's campaign cycle was even better, even cheaper healthcare for everybody. How can you say no to that? But the question is, how is he going to deliver that?
Obama did give fat cats on Wall Street a pretty easy out. He didn't have the backbone to actually press criminal charges on a lot of these people and make them do time (he also didn't have the backbone to tackle campaign finance reform). I think that was a mistake not because of some vindictiveness, but as good policy in signaling to financiers and bankers that they will be punished. I think the Dodd-Frank act passed during his tenure was a great idea--I think the rollbacks passed in March are mostly a bad idea and sets us up for another bust cycle.
It's not just making excuses--we needed to stay out of recession or dipping back into it and the aftermath of it was pretty strong. The aftermath of it included the election of a strongly antagonistic Congress partially because people can look at how their bank accounts dwindled when Obama was just elected and it's easy to buy into the idea that he had a large part to do with it and the GOP ran strongly on that sentiment. He just couldn't get much done. I think I'd put this separately from Trump who is actively shooting himself in the foot all the time. If Trump could have actually had been that secretly smart guy with good rational policies underneath that cap who only presented himself as a boor sometimes, that would be fantastic! He'd have such great leverage. I didn't vote for him because I thought the odds were that he was not that, though I very much wanted that to be true.
Yea, he did deal with recession and its aftermath for most of his term. Good job! If you know that, then you certainly know that a lot of other developed countries re-entered technical recession several times after initial recovery. We fortunately got out pretty quickly and didn't have to dip back in.
Obama certainly did things that I don't think were great policy, but his biggest failure was the inability to convince people from the other side to go along. The issue with that is it seems like the rationale for why they didn't go along is somehow no longer relevant once they are in power (see: the tax changes and the deficit) when they were formerly massive rallying cries and completely non-negotiable.
I feel like the American right wing would have been opposed to Obama no matter what
I feel like the American right wing would have been opposed to Obama no matter what
Yea, they would have, but I think people who were more moderate also moved into voting for the right.
Also, maybe divorce rates? I think the oddest personal, anecdotal trend I see is that among the people I actually know, by far the largest contingent of people who voted Trump and did a hard shift rightwards over the years are divorced or separated older men. That's anecdotal, of course, but it kind of stuck out to me pretty strongly because it did this beautiful thing where it transcended both race and socioeconomic status though not age, gender, or loneliness.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 05-11-2018 at 07:20 PM..
5 terms of different governors in Albany did not fund or force the Port Authority to fix the subway until it started falling apart. NYC send more taxes to Albany than it receives back.
MTA is part of the Port Authority and reports to the NY and NJ governors.
The President and the Feds have no control of state affairs.
Do you smoke Crack?
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